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Copper coating on mild steel filler rods.

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  • sturugged
    replied
    A good question here...

    I was not specifically aware that the copper was intended as a lubricant for the drawing operations or if it is even critically needed. I have seen and used wire from several manufacturers and most are copper coated. If copper is a contaminant I highly doubt the good welding wire gods would permit it being put onto wire. From the metallurgical stand point small amounts of copper are added to most types of steel to function as a very potent De-oxidizer. The copper on the welding wire then must not be completely vaporized under arc temperatures and some must end up in the finished weld. The de-oxidizers help to draw oxygen out of the weld and to also assist in formation of slag. Even when Migging or Tigging there will be a very fine slag on the finished Welds. You can also buy uncoated wire or rod in the same sizes that come coated. I have used both and not seen any difference in bend tests using either. Unless you are welding super critical aerospace welds I doubt whether or not it makes much difference if you sand or wipe them with acetone. If you are welding this stuff You probably wouldnt be using mild steel filler wire, (but maybe).

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  • Donald Branscom
    replied
    Originally posted by old jupiter View Post
    MC (metallurgically controlled) grade, vacuum-remelt, rod and wire, approved by Pratt and Whitney, GE, Rolls-Royce, NASA, etc., . . . none of which will be copper coated:

    usweldingcorp.com

    lancasteralloys.co.uk
    Thanks Old Jupitor.

    What sections and metals will those be used on in the engine?

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  • old jupiter
    replied
    MC (metallurgically controlled) grade, vacuum-remelt, rod and wire, approved by Pratt and Whitney, GE, Rolls-Royce, NASA, etc., . . . none of which will be copper coated:

    usweldingcorp.com

    lancasteralloys.co.uk

    Leave a comment:


  • mikejmu
    replied
    Originally posted by Donald Branscom View Post
    True story.

    One time I had to make a weld on something down low to the floor.
    I had to lay on the floor. When I picked up the stick welding electrode holder I was getting a small shock!! I finally found out that there was so much metal grinding dust on the floor that is was making a weak connection.
    I carefully put down the stinger and got up off of that floor!!!

    Good reason to keep the floors clean. Also prevents slip and falls.
    welding slag is like millions of little ball bearings
    Haha, then that's why my wife is always telling me to clean up my mess! I thought that she was just nagging, but she actually cares :-)

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  • Donald Branscom
    replied
    Originally posted by BCarlucci View Post
    Hawk,

    Always have to have a clean shop right? I know when it comes to mine i hate it when my floors are dirty and there's dust all over the place.

    BC
    True story.

    One time I had to make a weld on something down low to the floor.
    I had to lay on the floor. When I picked up the stick welding electrode holder I was getting a small shock!! I finally found out that there was so much metal grinding dust on the floor that is was making a weak connection.
    I carefully put down the stinger and got up off of that floor!!!

    Good reason to keep the floors clean. Also prevents slip and falls.
    welding slag is like millions of little ball bearings

    Leave a comment:


  • Donald Branscom
    replied
    Originally posted by HAWK View Post
    For anyone who wants to try it:

    Run a 20 inch MIG short arc bead on 1/4 steel with copper coated ER70S-6 and run the same bead with bare ER70S-6. Use scale free clean steel for both welds. Compare the beads with the naked eye and under a 10X glass. I think you will be amazed.

    Do the same with the TIG filler. I can't see as much difference between the copper coated and bare filler wires for TIG as I do in the MIG wires. However, there is a difference.

    Food for thought.
    Too bad you did not tell us what you saw.

    Leave a comment:


  • Donald Branscom
    replied
    About 20 years ago it was easy to get uncoated welding rods (steel).

    It was used mostly by muffler shops when they still used oxy-actyelene welding in some muffler shops at that time. It was perfered for the galvanized muffler tubing.
    It just worked better with a torch.

    Now that MIG is used in muffler shops you do not see the uncoated wire anymore.

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  • HAWK
    replied
    For anyone who wants to try it:

    Run a 20 inch MIG short arc bead on 1/4 steel with copper coated ER70S-6 and run the same bead with bare ER70S-6. Use scale free clean steel for both welds. Compare the beads with the naked eye and under a 10X glass. I think you will be amazed.

    Do the same with the TIG filler. I can't see as much difference between the copper coated and bare filler wires for TIG as I do in the MIG wires. However, there is a difference.

    Food for thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • 72boss
    replied
    but I didn't inhale....

    The Downside:

    On those occasions when you get a whif of your own weding fumes, would you rather be sniffing toxic or non-toxic fumes?

    Would you rather use a filler that was relatively pure or one that is sure to leave foreign material in the weld?

    Bare wire and rod is available, if you seek it out. You may pay a premium when compared to the shelf stocked items, or you may be asked to buy a larger quantity, in either case it is well worth the effort. You may also use the "HAWK" option and strip your rod of the toxic materials prior to use.

    Check with the welders fabricating tube frames for aircraft if you want discourse on the copper contamination of coated filler rod.

    Leave a comment:


  • klsm54
    replied
    This is one of those areas that HAWK and I have pretty much agreed to disagree... .....While I am certain that there is nothing wrong with bare, un-coated, rod and wire, I have yet to be shown the downside of coppercoated rod and wire. There is literally millions of pounds of coppercoated filler metals used every day in this country, much of it on extremely critical welds, with no ill effects.

    While un-coated mig wire is readily available, bare tig filler, in any normal alloy would be a special order item. W-1200, while able to be used as a tig filler, is designed as a gas rod and lacks the mechanical properties of an ER70S-2 wire. The occaisional high alloy tig filler comes in a bare wire, but even the 80's and 90's and 4130 and such comes with a copper coating.

    Now, I am not arguing that it IS a method to help in the manufacture of the wire, the drawing process, but if it was a detriment to the weld deposit, or the operator, I would expect the AWS to be specifying many more rods and wire without it. As far as a danger to operators, as with any welding, precautions should always be taken so that you are not directly inhaling the fumes.

    If you want to strip your rods and buy bare when available, I am sure that it will work just fine, but I will always believe that it is not something that is needed to make quality welds....

    Leave a comment:


  • BCarlucci
    replied
    Hawk,

    Always have to have a clean shop right? I know when it comes to mine i hate it when my floors are dirty and there's dust all over the place.

    BC

    Leave a comment:


  • HAWK
    replied
    revpol,


    Good point. I always use acetone for a final wipe after sanding (with Scotch-Brite not sand paper) and before welding. I also Scotch-Brite my rods in the outdoors. That keeps the dust from collecting inside the shop.

    Leave a comment:


  • revpol
    replied
    30yrs of tigging under x-ray conditions the only time I ever removed the coating off of 70s wire was when I thought it may have been contaminated with rust. Then I just threw it away. Never have I had a problem with the coating, but I always had a good quality rod from a major filler rod company. You could possibly contaminate the rod or weld with sanding dust If you don't use a cleaner of some sort after you sand the coating off. I've never heard of that either but I suppose it could happen. Stainless,certainium,inconel, stuff like that comes uncoated. Although some s.s. wire has a flux coating. revpol

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  • wrench3047
    replied
    Just today I was in the weld shop at work and the door was open on the MM251. I seen a spool of copper coated wire. I asked about it and he let me play with it. After I was done I lifted my hood and watched the coating sizzle of the rest of the wire sticking out I thought it was cool. Our welder said it mostly vaporizes.

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  • BCarlucci
    replied
    I use Harris Welco's 1200 tig rod, it's a none coated tig rod and i've always used since starting to tig weld in my fathers shop, the only prob, is if it sits to long in the shop it rusts. Unless you have a heating fridge, well that's what i call it, that's where i store all my rod and tig rod. Still trying to convince the little lady to let me buy a digital camera so i can show you guys my setup.

    BC

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