Big Window Elite

[iso50]

I got my new helmet today!! Strange that I ordered it from BR Welding and it was shipped 2nd day air from Appleton (which is a 10min drive).

My question is:

Why does Miller say not to use this helmet in the overhead position?

[Tanner]

it'd be a shame for some puddle to fall on that $300 helmet and burn a hole right through it. Probably because the helmet can't withstand the heat if some molten metal did fall on it.

[iso50]

I paid $224 for it new from BR. So does that mean I have to buy another helmet for the overhead welds?

[DDA52]

I could be wrong, but I believe that is a standard disclaimer. I looked on my other hoods, 3 standard Jacksons and a Fibre Metal, and they said the same thing. It may have more to do with the level of slag protection offered with an open back hood as opposed to a full head cover. Not sure..... I've used my Elite to do some overhead already and found no damage. In fact, the cover lenses didn't pit at all. If I were you, I'd use the hood as you need it. All the time and in any position. If you are dropping so much slag as to burn through the shell, then it really won't matter which hood you use, since your trip to the ER will probably end your welding days!

[iso50]

I hope the school teaches better than that!! I dont think they would do too well if all the students ended up in the hospital!

[Steved]

I hate to ask this question but the cheap in me has to.

Andy:

I am in the electronics business and understand the costing of higher volume electronics.

Agreed that the Big Window Elite is the best out there but I would guess that the electronics consist of 4 photodetectors, an opamp or two, voltage regulator, solar cells, and a LCD screen.

I would guess that the BOM (Bill of Materials Cost) of the electronics are no more than $30 and the plastics are no more than $15.

Why is the helmet so expensive?

[DDA52]

Originally posted by iso50
I hope the school teaches better than that!! I dont think they would do too well if all the students ended up in the hospital!

iso50
Have no fear. That was my tired attempt at sarcasm. I do plenty of overhead and I have never run into a situation where THAT much molten goo is raining down on me.And if it was, I'd just move over. I guess if you were using a cutting torch directly overhead, maybe. But MIG or stick? Not likely. Those processes just don't generate that much slag IMO. I have plenty of slag burn marks on my hoods, but no holes ( and one of those hoods is twenty years old!).

Don

[tackit]

Steved
I would bet it's because they have to pay designers, engineers,taxes,insurance,benefits,producers and distribution people.

[Tanner]

Originally posted by Steved

I would guess that the BOM (Bill of Materials Cost) of the electronics are no more than $30 and the plastics are no more than $15.

Why is the helmet so expensive?

Then multiply that $45 times however many helmets they sell. Not to mention the paint, and marketing.

[tackit]

iso50
I have plenty of slag burn marks on my hoods, but no holes ( and one of those hoods is twenty years old!).

Don

Don your lucky, I got scars on my head, ears, ankles and shoulders from welding and burning out of position. 7018 slag don't let go and 6010 keeps going in until it cools

[Steved]

In general, when I have designed high volume electronics the selling cost was twice the BOM cost and slightly less for larger customers. Volume of products was about 5k/year. For higher volume items such as cell phones the markup is substantially smaller as the competition is greater.

The 100% markup will cover the overhead such as sales, marketing etc and if a company is run correctly, still affords around a 20%+ profit.

(The painting of the hood was included with the original estimate of the BOM costs)

[DDA52]

Don your lucky, I got scars on my head, ears, ankles and shoulders from welding and burning out of position. 7018 slag don't let go and 6010 keeps going in until it cools

tackit
You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that "I" have never had slag burn through a hood, either through the shell or through the lens. I on the, other hand, am covered with battle scars from slag. It sounded to me as if they were concerned that the slag was going to come through. Since most of my work was overhead and vertical, I ate tons of slag, just never trashed a hood with it. Did that come out right? I'm so tired, I can barely type.

Don

[tackit]

DDA52 I understand friend.

[ASKANDY]

Steved,
There's a lot more to the electronics than the list you compiled. If it were that easy, all helmets would work as well as ours and we all know that is not true. Same goes with welders. We spend an enormous amount on research and development. The costs for this has to be covered somewhere. Cell phone technology hasn't changed much over the years after everything went digital. Yea they come out with phones with camaras and neat gadgets but the overall connection from A to B is still the same technology. Welding machines are always in a constant state of change. Even the topology of our new inverters have a different engine of inverters of 2 years ago. Helmet technology has to stay up with these arc refinements that cause cheaper hoods to flash. I can tell you that our cost is way way nore than you estimated.
So why is the helmet so expensive??
Features-
Refinements to arc sensing electronics-
Price comparison to other helmets in same feature range-
R & D
and to pay my salary $$
(i wish)

Have a good one!
A-

[Steved]

Thank you for the response Andy.

I am sure that there are some items that I have overlooked in the R&D and I appreciate the feedback. It just hurts my pocketbook at times but in the end I guess you get what you pay for.

To set the record straight with respect to cell phones (this is one of the areas that I work in)

The technology has evolved exponentially since the digital turnover with cameras, CDMA, UTMS, GSM, internet access, text messaging etc. The R&D required to produce these phones with the very long standby time is mind boggling. (Teams of people, about 75 work solid for one year to produce a phone)

I guess when you are not in the thick of it, it seems easy from the outside. Just as I assume the helmets are easy, you assume the cell phones are easy and it would appear that we are both incorrect.

Out of interest the cell phones are usually sold to the consumer far cheaper than they are worth. (A $50 camera phone is actually worth about $180-$300) This is why you have to sign the long contracts, they eventually get their money.

Any way, WAY off topic for a welding site, happy welding to all!