Help Me Make A Decision On What To Buy

[BradJacob]

Hey eveyone,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with a few quesitions.

I'm new to welding but I know that I absolutely LOVE it!! I am going to buy a MIG & TIG welder to have a well-rounded welding setup.

My purposes:
1. Will be to work on Harleys/Customs
2. Doing home repairs
3. Just pure fun
4. ...and maybe it can evolve into something more!

I "thought" I needed a Millermatic 251 (being that I see it on American Chopper always). I'm thinking more along the lines of the Millermatic 175 & Syncrowave 180. Will the 175 suit my needs? Is the difference between the 251 & 175 simply the thickness of the metal? Single pass...Now that needs alittle clarification. Could I weld more that 1/4 on a 175 using "multiple passes". What about the Millermatic 210. Is 7 "taps" a bad thing - (while the 175 having infinate volatage) ?? Any tips in this decision process would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

- Brad

[klsm54]

Millermatic 251 and Dynasty 200DX. That combo will leave you wanting, or needing, very little more. That would be my ideal combination, if price is a factor, the Millermatic 210 and the Syncrowave 180SD would be my "economy" pair. The "tap" settings on the 210 are of no disadvantage, and many will tell you that they make the machine better than those with infinate settings.I think you are better off to save your money and get the equipment that will cover all bases, rather than buying a machine that will just "get by". If you buy a smaller machine, you will someday want a bigger one, at least that is my thought.

[BCarlucci]

If your going to do it, you might as well do it right, i agree with the 251 and dynasty setup. Those two go well together and will give you a "well rounded" shop. Sometimes the 251 could be over kill, but depending on your use, the 210 is a great substitute (pardon the spelling i'm trying to get out of the office). Those would be my recomendations if you came into my shop. If you couldn't go with that then the 210 and the syncrowave 180SD. But that would be my last choice. and on a personal basis, i have a mm210 and a dynasty 200dx setup at my house and i love them.

BC

[HAWK]

BradJacob,

These guys are dealerS and I am an end user. Nonetheless I agree 100% with their recommendations! The MM251X and the Dynasty 200DX is the ticket. Buy right the first time and you won't be disappointed!!!

[BradJacob]

Pro's & Cons Of Millermatic "210" -vs- "175"

Thanks for the replies guys. First off, my budget is around The Dynasty is FAR TOO expensive for me and my garage shop. It's about 2700 - just a tad outta my price range. After all, I've never TIG-ed before. The Syncrowave sounds like a good one - and some research has shown a varity of bike shops/car shops use it and love it.

The Discovery Channel's "Biker-Build Off" - where all the builders created a bike in this shop in the desert - were using a MM-175. They did great bike with that, wouldn't that be enough or is there a need for a bigger machine?

I want to do frames & sheet metal, - things like that.

The real question is this:

(MM-210) - vs - (MM-175)
Can anyone give me some hard-core "PROS" & "CONS" on these two machines against each other.

[klsm54]

The MM210 is a 60% duty cycle machine @ 160amps and 24.5 volts
....MM175 is a 30% duty cycle machine @ 130amps and 20.0 volts

The MM210 takes 12" spools of wire, which means that wire is cheaper and there is a much larger variety of wires available than the 8" spools that the 175 will accept.

The MM210 has a 12 ft M-25 (250 amp rating) versus a 10' M-10( 100 amp rating) mig gun.

The MM210 comes complete with a running gear and cylinder rack, the 175 does not.

The MM210 will accept a "plug in" spoolgun for aluminum welding, where the 175 requires a $239.00 adaptor to put a spoolgun on it.

The MM210 has "Gun on Demand" feature, that makes switching from standard mig gun to spool gun as simple as picking up either gun and pulling the trigger.

The 210 has a heavier wire drive system.

So when you consider the extras that you get with a 210, you really aren't paying much more for the much heavier duty power supply itself.

[Brad-Man]

I would imagine you need to ask yourself a few questions:

What thickness steel will I be welding, both now and in the
future?

What thickness aluminum will I be welding, both now and in the
future?

How quickly do I need to produce finished items w/quqality welds?

If you need to weld aluminum less than 1/8" there is no doubt that you need TIG. If you are not going to go that thin, then MIG is more than adequate.

If you need to weld more than 1/4" steel in a single pass then the 175 class machine will be needed. Be aware that multi-pass is preferred to single pass for high quality welds on thicker steel. Don't take my word for this, do some searching

If you are going to do both thick aluminum and steel, you are better off getting a 210 or 251 machine (assuming Miller/Hobart) with built in support for spoolguns, and gete a smaller TIG for thin aluminum.

I myself have an MM175, which I have used to build a car rotisserie, and will be using for putting in new floorpans, subchassis connectors, removing drip rails and new quarterpanels/other bodywork on a '75 280Z project.

I have no intention of going much further with welding than this application genre, so felt no need of going any further.

My opinion from what you have stated:

MM175 and a good TIG will do you. I lean toward the Synchrowave
180SD for budget reasons...
for budget reasons

[hankj]

Brad,

The MM210 will set you back around $1100 without the spoolgun; the 175 will go for around $750. For the extra $350, you will have all the machine you will ever need unless you get into shipbuilding or boilermaking.

Be well.

hank

[BradJacob]

Originally posted by hankj
Brad,

The MM210 will set you back around $1100 without the spoolgun; the 175 will go for around $750. For the extra $350, you will have all the machine you will ever need unless you get into shipbuilding or boilermaking.

Be well.

hank

Hank - Which on will be more machine than I'll need 175 or 210?? I'm leaning more toward the 175 - as I'll only be working on sheet metal, bike frames, etc... If I need to go any thicker, I'm sure the stick option on the Syncrowave 180 will handle it just fine. You do you think?

[fun4now]

mm210

the mm210 will be more than you will ever need. is what hawk ment and add the syncrowave 180sd fo any tig you may need ( gass tank work )i was going to get the syncrowave but due to power needs of the syncrowave i will have to save up to get the dynasty. check your power options if you have the power and space the 180 will do you great . after all you are not OCC chopers so you dont have ther $$$$ or time table if you get the 210 and 180 you will be fine if you dont forsee any real aluminum work in your feuture then you could go with the mm175 and risk outgrowing it .if you get your harly shop up and going good you wont have to wory about the $$$ and can resell your mm175 and get a 251 then. so you lose a cuple hundred bucks after a year of use no biggie.
mm175 and syn.180 will do it
mm210 and syn.180 will do better
you can upgrade when this set makes you enough $$$ to buy a better set .
good luck and happy welding

[hankj]

Brad,

I wouldn't agonize too much over it. The 175 is a sweet machine, and if you ever dsecide that you need to go up, it holds it's value well. You are correct re: stick with the 180. I suspect that once you start TIG'ing, you'll build most of your frames with that process anyway.

Be well.

hank

[Danny]

Performance wise, the MM 210 is a much better unit then the MM 175. The MM 210 has more consistant arc starts, is easier to dial the arc in on, and the weld puddle wets out a little better on the MM 210 too. The MM 175 with its wire speed tracking design and variable voltage control is a finicky unit to tune the arc in properly on. A better unit in the MM 175 class would be the Hobart Handler 180. I had the HH 175 and it was an excellent unit.

[dcsound]

debating about the various MM welders

Thanks for some helpful info. I have been debating about the various MM welders for the last few weeks. I was originally thinking about a 175, but now probably going to get a 210 or 251. This thread really explained the differences. Thanks.

[Paul Seaman]

I would vote for the mm210 but I own one and for 1-1/2 year it has been great, Love it.
I wanted to do Aluminum and got the spoolgun setup in one package. This machine is perfect for me and I've pushed it pretty hard on occasion and it just humms on.

Whatever you choose we are here after the sale for Q&A,

Peace,

[BradJacob]

Thanks To All For Your Help

TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO RESONDED TO THIS THREAD:

1. THANKS TO EVERYONE - AND ALL YOUR INFORMATION & HELP!
2. SEEMS THAT IT ALSO HELPED OUT ANOTHER JUNIOR WELDER LIKE MYSELF.
3. HAPPY WELDING TO ALL - AND I'LL POST PIX WHEN I GET MY MACHINES.

SO MUCH APPRECIATED!

TIME TO MAKE A DECISION...