Gas mixes for spry arc.

[hankj]

Hi, gang.

I'm trying to tool up for the big MM210 purchase so I don't go totally broke whe I make the leap. I'm guessing the 210 can spray since trnasition current is around 165 amps or so (yes?) and around 26 volts. I've heard 98% argon/2% O2 is the preferred mix, but I can't get it locally (within 40 miles) so I'm wodering what else, if anything, is suitable.

Already got C-25; 100% Ar is next.

Advise?

Thanks,

hank

[klsm54]

95/5 Argon/CO2, 92/8 Argon/CO2 are two pretty common mixes.You can also spray with 90/10 Argon/CO2. Does your supplier have any Argon/CO2 mixes with less than 20% CO2?

[hankj]

Let me modify the question a little. Found a good post that HAWK started by searching on "spray arc" that pretty well tells the gas story. I'm OK there. From the post, it looks like the 210 ain't all that great a spray rig anyway, so maybe I'll just keep on short-arcing and call it game.

Part two: Should I attempt to spray, how do I know I'm spraying?? Never saw it, never heard it. Clueless in Browns Valley, where it's too hot outside to weld today, anyway!!

Be well.

hank

PS klsm- thanks for the quick reply.

[Wayne]

Spray gas

Hankj
I get 98%argon 2% O2 at Sierra Airgas in Yuba City. When you are in spray mode you get a hiss like an air leak. If you come by my shop you can try spray on my welder.
Wayne.

[Alex]

Hank,
If you go for any O2 mix, make sure you cover up good. I've read that an O2 arc is much more intense than a CO2 arc. I get my gas from Praxair. They bottle a mix called StarGold C8. It's a 92/8 Argon/CO2 mix. They also bottle a StarGold C5. I've not tried the C5 mix. Should be hotter than C8 according to HAWK.

Weld on,
Alex

[Sberry]

I am probably going to get my *** kicked here but I think the need to spray arc for a lot of people is highly overated. One of the reasons I like wire in my shop is that is is so neat for out of position work and for filling gaps and poor fitups. I like 035 and crank it up.

[cope]

Originally posted by hankj
Let me modify the question a little. Found a good post that HAWK started by searching on "spray arc" that pretty well tells the gas story. I'm OK there. From the post, it looks like the 210 ain't all that great a spray rig anyway, so maybe I'll just keep on short-arcing and call it game.

Part two: Should I attempt to spray, how do I know I'm spraying?? Never saw it, never heard it. Clueless in Browns Valley, where it's too hot outside to weld today, anyway!!

Be well.

hank

PS klsm- thanks for the quick reply.

Dan would argue with you regarding the spray ability of the 210. I agree with Sberry; Spray is usefull when you are pushing the evelope power wise on a machine but not needed for most people. It will wreck a gun that is not rated heavy enough if used for too much spray.

[HAWK]

YES and NO:

YES:
The 210 will spray without a problem. It is definitely an under rated machine. It will spray easier with the 98%argon/2%oxygen than the other other gas mixes as the globular transfer to spray threshold is at the upper end of the 210s power output. Therefore, the hotter the gas mix, the easier the spray will come.

NO:
Most folks have no true need for spray arc. Unless you are going to be doing a lot of 1/8" and 1/4" in position or horizontal fillets with the 210 spray is not a consideration. It is great for production work if you have and need this type of enviroment.

The spray gets its name from the sound the molten metal droplets make as they are sprayed across the arc onto the work piece. It literally looks like a stream of silver/white metal coming from a spray can nozzle.

How to do it: Change over to the hotter gas of your choice, set the 210 near its upper end of the voltage range (tap 6 or 7), turn the wire speed high enough to get the wire stubbing or a good hot crackling arc, now back off the wire speed until you get the spray. BE SURE TO USE A 3/4" TO 1" NOZZLE STICK OUT AND HAVE YOUR CONTACT TIP FLUSH OR SLIGHTLY RECESSED IN RELATION TO THE NOZZLE. When all is correctly set you can get a hot short arc when you squeeze the trigger and the arc will go into spray as you extend your stick out near the 3/4" to 1" position with the torch nozzle. AS ALEX MENTIONED USE A FOIL COVER ON YOUR LEFT HAND OR THE HEAT FROM THE SPRAY WILL MAKE YOU HURT IN A HURRY!

AS SBERRY MENTIONED THE M25 GUN ON THE 210 MAY GO UP IN SMOKE IF USED TO SPRAY ON A REGULAR BASIS. ALSO .035" WIRE WITH A 75%ARGON/25%CO2 OR SOMETHING SIMILAR TO A 92%ARGON/8%CO2 WILL DO MOST OF WHAT ALL MIG WELDERS NEED TO DO.

I use pulsed spray for most MIG applications, but the MM210 is not equipped for such applications. Pulsed spray gives you the advantages of deep penetration, little to no spatter, and out of position welding.

Pulsed spray will require a machine like the MM350P, an ALT/XMT series with the Optima pulser, or one of the Invision series.

Hope this helps

[hankj]

As usuall, I got it here!

Cary, what you said is exactly what my supplier said when I asked him for 98/2, only not so politely.

Wayne, where's your shop? Even if I don't take you up on the spray thing, I'd like to meet and converse, at least. And I didn't try
Airgas 'cause Mike at Hust Bros. re-sells stuff from Airgas, and doesn't carry 98/2. Shoulda checked myself. Thanks.

Hawk, I'm sure I'll never need to do production work. I'm outta the "production" business for good, except for producing lots of mulch whenever I mow the 2½ acres that I keep green up here! I'll probably take Wayne up on his offer for the good of the order, but maybe I'll just concentrate on becomming a **** good short-arc weldor!

Alex: no Praxair here! Cope: Yeah, I know. But looking at Dan's pics, I pretty much believe anything he says!!

Thanks, guys.

Be well.

hank

[Sberry]

I like Hawks assesment and I certainly agree there is a place for spray and a lot of guys which include Dan have a bigger interest in "welding" than I have thats for sure and I think half of it is they just want to see what it will do,,, hahaha. My interest leans more to fab and actually do general maint type work so its so much out of position and a one wire one gas system is the ticket. I like the 210 class machines for a couple reasons, one of which it is an affordable step up from the 175 and will run the 035 without choking. Electric input demands are fairly light and they work well with cords if needed. I like the idea that Hank is going to keep his 135 around. Keep 023 wire in it and a bottle on it, its good to go for sheet and keep 035 in the 210 and its a good system. I keep a machine with 030 and a 250 with 035. No switching needed.

[Sberry]

Little 230V Lincoln, nice to move around the shop and for light work. I keep 030 in this one.

[Sberry]

Having a small one keeps from having to move this thing with a monster bottle around.

[Danny]

Hank,

You'd have to be planning on doing critical welds on 1/4" to 1/2" before i would actually recommend having you spend $125+ on a bottle of 98/2. For most hobbyist weldors, the bottle of 98/2 will probably sit in a corner and collect quite a bit of dust.

If you plan on taking on projects that require critical welds on 1/4" and above, I actually feel that investing in a roll of an .035 all position gas shielded fluxcore wire would be more benefical then the 98/2 for spray transfer. This wire would give you out of position capability , and allow you to use your C-25 as your shielding gas. Im guessing though that more then likely, you probably won't need anything more then a roll of .030 or .035 solid wire and a bottle of C-25.

[BCarlucci]

Here's the distributor for you, once again, for 125 bucks for a bottle of 98/2? are you talking about buying the bottle? or renting it and the fill? Because sometimes i get a little confused here. For a bottle of 98%ar/2%co2, runs on average 35-40 bucks per fill and that's on a 300 series bottle. If you buy a 60-80 cuft bottle then i can see the 125 bucks. So if you could clarify this for me i'd appreicate it.

BC

[hankj]

Dan,

I'm thinking that way too after reading the consensus. I don't know about dual-shield. I'd think the 210 with .035 solid and C-25 should be able to weld adequately for trailer frames, hitches, etc., and that's as "critical" as I plan to get.

BC,

I buy my tanks, usually 80CF due to the smaller size, ease of handling, and the fact that I don't have that much actual arc time. Most of the time is spent fitting-up, etc., as you know.

Thanks.

Be well.

hank