MIG Wire

[timw]

Bought a 44lb spool of steel .035 today for $41.76 and it came to $49.16 out the door. Dosen't seem that bad to me. I guess the steel prices aren't hurting wire. I think I paid $50. something last fall.

[cope]

Re: MIG Wire

Originally posted by timw
Bought a 44lb spool of steel .035 today for $41.76 and it came to $49.16 out the door. Dosen't seem that bad to me. I guess the steel prices aren't hurting wire. I think I paid $50. something last fall.

Sounds about right. I bought a 33# spool last spring and paid +/-$30 out the door. I find that location and dealer skew the price of wire and other consumables quite a bit.

[klsm54]

You got a good deal. There have been several surcharges added to all the large manufacturers wire. I believe with the newest surcharge that is taking efect on July 1st, Lincoln Hardwire has gone up in the vicinity of $0.20 per pound, since March 15th. The other manufacturers are all about the same.

Actually, the steel green rod and strip, used to make filler metals, is escallating faster than some other types of steel. The cost of the raw materials have risen 80% since the latter part of 2003, and there is no slow down in these increases on the horizon.

If the cost of welding wire was a consequence to me, I would stock up a little. Product availability is improving, but not near as good as it was 6 months ago, with shortages on certain products still existing.

[HAWK]

Best Way

timw,

Sounds like a good deal. I buy the 44lb spools of ER70S-6 in a bare wire (plain wire without the copper coating). I use it fast enough that is does not rust. I typically run .035 in this wire and pay about $48.00 out the door. However, this was before so many price increases. When things started escalating, I bought a few hundred pounds and sealed them in plastic. That said it is almost time to shop again. I am afraid of what I will find.

[cope]

Originally posted by klsm54
You got a good deal. There have been several surcharges added to all the large manufacturers wire. I believe with the newest surcharge that is taking efect on July 1st, Lincoln Hardwire has gone up in the vicinity of $0.20 per pound, since March 15th. The other manufacturers are all about the same.

Actually, the steel green rod and strip, used to make filler metals, is escallating faster than some other types of steel. The cost of the raw materials have risen 80% since the latter part of 2003, and there is no slow down in these increases on the horizon.

If the cost of welding wire was a consequence to me, I would stock up a little. Product availability is improving, but not near as good as it was 6 months ago, with shortages on certain products still existing.

It can't be any worse than the electrode shortages in 1974.

[timw]

The wire I bought was ER70S-6 but it is copper coated. We have such a problem with humidity here I always spray the new roll of wire with WD-40 to protect it. I haven't found any problems from doing that. I use a roll about every 8-12 months.

[HAWK]

timw,

A roll of bare wire will go about 1 week before the top layer of wire begins to gather surface rust. The copper coating last considerably longer. I don't believe rust prevention is the primary reason for Cu coating. It seems like a rep once told me some years back, but...

[hankj]

The copper coating on electrode wire is a manufacturing addition to aid in the wire drawing process. Good part: it does help inhibit rust.

How do I know? The welding book told me so!!

Be well.

hankj

[klsm54]

Copper has a natural "Lubricity" , (real word ,honest)to it, which does improve the drawing process somewhat. It also improves the feeding process considerably, and adds conductivity to the wire. Bare wire is considerably harder on contact tips than copper coated wire, maybe not a concern to the shop who runs a roll or two of wire a week, but to those who run pallets and buy contact tips by the hundreds, it makes a difference. And of course there is the added rust prevention.

On the down side, copper can cause problems when the coating is poor, or the drive rolls are adjusted improperly, and the copper begins to flake off, clogging the liner. I suppose there is a metalurgical difference, but it must be minute, as the bare and copper coated wires meet the same AWS specifications.

[Paul Seaman]

klsm54 and hankj:
I found flakes like that in the bottom of the machine a few monthes ago and thought it was a fluke. Since then the first birdsnest in over a year of use of my mm210 tightened the wire tension and no more problems, and haven't seen any copper flakes. I didn't even know this was possible, but you described it perfectly.

Thanks much,

[HAWK]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by klsm54
[B] Bare wire is considerably harder on contact tips than copper coated wire, maybe not a concern to the shop who runs a roll or two of wire a week, but to those who run pallets and buy contact tips by the hundreds, it makes a difference. And of course there is the added rust prevention.

klsm54,

The shop where I spent much time in years past and still have a good competitive working relationship going with smoked a couple dozen 44 pounders a week. We burned lots of .035" wire. I must say that is not much wire compared to pallets a week, but that's a good bit for 2 or 3 guys depending on the time of year. We ran the little felt cleaners on all our feeders. I honestly can't say we ever experienced any problems with contact tips, drive rolls, feeders, etc. I can say our work was the best in town and our welds had a much nicer overall appearance as well. None of us ever took a liking to copper coated wire for one reason or another. We did some short term testing and found that the bare wire welds did not exhibit the occaional dark spots the copper coated wire welds did.

The copper coated wire may be easier on machines as well as the manufacturing process, but I would not give a "plug nickel" for it. That was also the deciding factor in purchasing the 12RC rather than the 8RC for mobile work. The bare wire is not available in the smaller spools.

[cope]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HAWK
[B]

Originally posted by klsm54
Bare wire is considerably harder on contact tips than copper coated wire, maybe not a concern to the shop who runs a roll or two of wire a week, but to those who run pallets and buy contact tips by the hundreds, it makes a difference. And of course there is the added rust prevention.

klsm54,

The shop where I spent much time in years past and still have a good competitive working relationship going with smoked a couple dozen 44 pounders a week. We burned lots of .035" wire. I must say that is not much wire compared to pallets a week, but that's a good bit for 2 or 3 guys depending on the time of year. We ran the little felt cleaners on all our feeders. I honestly can't say we ever experienced any problems with contact tips, drive rolls, feeders, etc. I can say our work was the best in town and our welds had a much nicer overall appearance as well. None of us ever took a liking to copper coated wire for one reason or another. We did some short term testing and found that the bare wire welds did not exhibit the occaional dark spots the copper coated wire welds did.

The copper coated wire may be easier on machines as well as the manufacturing process, but I would not give a "plug nickel" for it. That was also the deciding factor in purchasing the 12RC rather than the 8RC for mobile work. The bare wire is not available in the smaller spools.

Everyone has to go with what works for them, but in a hobbyist's garage or a small shop where the welder isn't turned on everyday the bare wire may give more problems due to rust, especially in the humid Gulf Coast region.

[klsm54]

This is like "Coke" or "Pepsi" thing. Nobody is right or wrong, it is whatever works for you. I have some customers that will use nothing but "Bare" wire, and others that will use nothing but "Copper Coated" wire.

Hawk, I didn't mean that there was a problem with contact tips, so to speak, just considerablty less life. It is the nature of the beast, bare wire, to abrade the copper contact tip more. How much faster do they wear? I don't know, maybe 15 to 20 percent, just a guess, which would not be a factor in a shop that used even 20 tips a week. But when you look at large production facilities that buy hundreds of tips each week, it can be enough difference to make them use the coated wire. Contact tips are cheap, but down time for a whole factory full of welders is not.

You guys that count your own beans usually use what does the best job, those who have corporate bean counters often have to use what will do the job properly, yet also the most economicaly....

Often times, in my experience, it is the quality and set up of the original wire that was presented that makes the choice. In other words, if when the shop was set-up if a good tech guy set it up properly with one wire, and the enduser had good success with that wire, it will be hard to convince him otherwise. As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, why try to fix it?"

[cope]

I inherited an old spool of .035 wire with my machine. I had used it off and on for several years for small projects and practice work. I was going to build 50' of fence last spring so I bought a new roll. The difference was like night and day! tEven though I ran a wipe pad on the old wire it was still slightly corroded or contaminated I guess.

[HAWK]

Originally posted by klsm54
I have some customers that will use nothing but "Bare" wire, and others that will use nothing but "Copper Coated" wire.


You guys that count your own beans usually use what does the best job, those who have corporate bean counters often have to use what will do the job properly, yet also the most economicaly....

"If it ain't broke, why try to fix it?"

klsm54,

I agree with you. I just don't like the copper coating and the look of the finished weld. I also don't like the way the wire lays down. It's my personal preference. You are correct that I am not right or wrong. I think bare wire does a better job and that's why I use it.

It is the same reason I use the machines I do: To me the most important factor is doing the best job I can do for my clients. I don't care if a feeder or a machine crashes years too soon, pay big dollars for a specialty item if it does a better job, wear out 100x the consumables over the next shop as long as I get the best results possible.

If I find a better way , chances are good I follow it. My customers are first over all else. Right now I am testing an unheard of tri-mix shielding for GTAW and anodized aluminum without pulse welding. Do I think it will work better than pulsing with helium? No. However, I'll give it a try. If you don't try, you won't know.

I hope all copper coated wire users will try bare wire and vice versa. We both may learn something: about consumables and ourselves.