Jumpstarting WITH a Trailblazer

[H80N]

Had a customer ask me the other day if I could jump start his heavy equipment with my TB301G ... told him that I would find out... makes sense in CV mode ....BUT.... anybody ever hear of it?????
Heiti

[HAWK]

H80N,

I have seen "purple" brand welders with a battery charging circuit. However, even these are not recommended for jump starting.

[timw]

I used to jump start Semi's in the winter with an off brand 200 amp DC welder. It had a manual throttle control, I would hook it up at idle and bring up RPM until I heard the welder load up, probably 1200 RPM. Then the tractor could be cranked.
You could probably do it with the new welders if you used a large resistor like an oven element or something like that in the circuit for a ballast and low amp setting. I wouldn't try it unless you are familar the pros and cons of this setup. You could blow up the batteries or damage any electronics, computer controls, comunications equipment etc.

[H80N]

It was an interesting question... most of the bluestone quarries around here are on mountainsides far away from power and the winters get pretty cold... some of this diesel heavy equipment has 12v starters some 24v... the Trailblazer 301G in constant voltage mode has a voltage range of 10-34v and 300+ available amps...it would make sense that it could work..
Heiti

[fun4now]

who pays the bill

new heavy equipment has a lot of electronics in it i would hate to try to do a favor for an operator only for his boss to stick you with thousands of dollers in repair bill. keep in mind he who asks for help may not own.
more inportant if you accept $$ for the jump(even just a cupple bucks for a coffie)some states consider that a contracted deal for witch you can be held liable for any damages??
C. Y. A.
a frendly jesture can caust you.
i pulled a fella out of a ditch 1 winter only to get a bill for damaging his bumper. yes i accepted $2 (" o just let me buy you a cup of coffie to say thanks")seemed like an insult to tell him no the forth time!
just some food for thought.

[timw]

Looking at the specs on the 301, you have enough 120V AC output to plug in a good size battery charger with a jump feature. So it may take 30 minutes to bring the batteries up, I charge by the hour!
When I was 12 years old I started hanging around the corner gas station in Cincinnati. I have been through too many winters where you spend half the day shoveling the snow out of the way and trying to get something to start.
The resistor would work, again if you knew what you are doing and didn't push it too hard. I used to charge those little button batteries for my stick on clock in my service truck. I used a 12v test light and hooked it up in series on a 12v battery. The light provided the load in the circuit and the battery would charge.

[timw]

On a related note, I bought a Sears 180amp buzz box welder in 1965. (I still have it) The instructions tell you how to thaw frozen water pipes with it. I think it said do it in 10' sections and listed duty cycle to go on and off.

[H80N]

timw
sounds like when you jumped semis you were using a "Drooper" or constant current type of engine drive... which is a different animal entirely than a CV supply.... on the surface at least it appears that in constant voltage mode that the TB could be a giant battery charger/booster... the customer posed the question related to a problem he had last winter when we had days of below zero.. and they could just not get enough juice into a loader to get it started... and he wondered if the TB could be used like an aircraft "start cart".... while 115v aux power was supplying the block heaters... (do not need or want a "Blue Charger" as this would be an infrequent use)
wonder what the Miller engine drive guys think of this??.... Andy??
thanks
Heiti

[moe1942]

Jump starting

Heiti,

Guess construction equipment isn't made the same anymore either. Growing up in Wisconsin I have seen large dozers go to work in sub zero weather. They had a small IC engine that turned a large flywheel for centrifugal starts. With this and a shot or two of ether they were on the job.

Older recips used a similar system (no ether) using the aircraft batteries to energize the centrifugal starter. They also had a oil dilution system. Just dumped 115/145 into the oil.

Could these large pieces of equipment use a combination of block heaters, oil dilution and a starter cart comprised of a bank of batteries hooked in parallel? The secret is to get the oil thin enough so things can turn. Minus this things will start to break. A battery cart could be designed with enough amps to make a starter turn anything within its limits.

Just my thoughts

moe1942

[H80N]

Moe
most of these are small operations with equipment that is 20 or 30 years old... same stuff that we grew up with...so no electronics to worry about... block heaters and enough amps to turn em would be the key... most do not have pony motors .... you are right can't turn over a frozen solid slug of petroleum so it has to warm enough to flow but frozen batteries do not put out much juice... and I am having a hard time seeing why the TB in constant voltage mode would not work for the boost while the aux AC were used to power a couple of salamanders and the block heater
The Trailblazer is a large regulated DC supply in CV mode and should work just fine... or...am I missing something??? and yep it produces a lot of amps but so will a battery... heck a battery can produce over 1000 amps momentarily at dead short... so what am I missing??
Thanks
Heiti

BTW for the troops that do not know 115/145 is AVGAS.... RED 115/ PURPLE 145 Octane... if I remember correctly....

[moe1942]

Heiti,

Sorry for getting your thread off track. I don't know a thing about the TB so I can offer no help in that respect. IMHO though I would say that 300 Amps is probably not enough juice to crank a cold piece of construction equipment.

Thanks for clearing up my 115/145 comment....

moe1942

[fun4now]

cold cranking amps

moe1942 may have a good point most car batteries have 600-800 starting ampsthats what thee cold cranking amps rating is for tells you how much your battery will put out in a starting draww. i would have to think heavy equipment batterys would be even hier. i know in the army our 2 1/2 ton trucks and m113's (armored personell cariers) linked batteries in series for more juce thouse old deasels would use far beond 300 amps on startup in the cold.it might be differnt but i think an amp is an amp. 300 amps weld well because the electrode is small and the power is constant . so although it seems like a lot in starting amps its not.

[walker]

Just take your ground clamp and hook it to the frame. Then stick an electrode in the stinger and stab the big starter wire connection at the starter. Then have someone start it. I like this method as it keeps the sparks away from the battery. However, you could connect one clamp on the battery and then ground the other on the frame. I would not do this on someone elses equipment due to the liability, I see this method only as a means to get out of a bind.
Oh, also, make sure you know which electrode is POS and NEG, in other words know if your machine is set up DCEP or DCEN.

[ASKANDY]

Heiti,

I've done this in the winter when I lived in Wisconsin. Trick is not to put too much voltage over the current battery level. So if the battery is at say 9 volts, start your unit near there and move up slowly to 12-14 volts or some equipment (as you know) runs on 24V. This will not shock the battery. It's not really recommended by the factory cause no way to tell the amp draw from the machine. If amps are rising too quick, it's 'cause a cell in the battery is shorted and battery failure will soon come. We build engine drives with battery charge circuitry in them to take this all into account. So, if you have a volt meter and amp clamp and think you want to take the chance, the answer is yes it will jump some equipment as long as the jump draw doesn't exceed welder capacity.

I was jumping an old malibu winter beater about every 3rd morning.

Good luck!

Andy

[DDA52]

Re: cold cranking amps

Originally posted by fun4now
. i would have to think heavy equipment batterys would be even hier. .

My 3176 CAT has 3 1000 amp batts in a series. My Cummins M-11 has 4 750 amp batts in series. If one of those batts are bad, there is no joy in the trucking world that day! MY Case 1845c only needs about 750 amps to fire up, freezing, cold or hot.

Don



Moe,
More rain for us tomorrow!