180SD wiring

[rick-l]

I'm thinking about a syncrowave 180. I am a home hobbyist. I downloaded the user manual and it says to use a slow blow breaker. Unfortunately I have one of the fire hazard, bankrupt Federal Pacific type panels in the house. All I can get is a plain used 50 amp breaker like would be used for central air. What kind of limitations will this impose (the non slow blow).

Also I would want to use this in two places, garage and basement (walk in). The manual says to install it directly to a line disconnect device. Does anyone use a plug? I guess interrupting 50 amps by pulling the plug could get exciting. Would 100 foot long 3 guage welding cables be the answer and will the foot control work 100 feet away? That seems pretty expensive.

The manual also seems quite concerned with Electro Magnetic Interference. Will this damage things (computer, TV, radio etc) within a 50 foot radius or just render them inoperable while welding?

Sorry for all the questions

[Tanner]

quick sent this to my friend (a registered electrician), and he said "Most circuit breakers are an inverse time breaker, so they are indeed a slow blow. If it was a fuse, I would go with a time delay of course, but I do not have my code book to tell what size they would need to be."

Oh, he also said that disconnecting the machine from the plug would be fine AS LONG AS the machine is turned off. He then stated that yes, those panels ARE a fire hazard, and if you can, get it changed ("Anything from Siemens, Cutler Hammer, Square D, are all great panels")

Hope this helps

[Paul Seaman]

Rick:
Welcome aboard, looks like our friend Tanner has covered most of your questions but as for the interference it is only during welding and shouldn't cause any lasting irritations. I would use a plug but make sure it is rated for the max amperage of the machine. I would also lean toward a twist lock plug and receptical and the same for the extension cord.

Longer welding cables are great if you need them but I prefer to keep the machine as close as possible to the work.

Good luck,

[Canuck]

My 180SD came with a plug on it for 230v at 50amps. Right now I am running it at about 125 -135 amps on 30 amp breaker and have had no problems but I do have plans to 6/3 tech cable from the box and put in a 50 amp breaker. I am not electrical expert but if it works on a 30 it should be better with a 50. ( Bigger is always better )

[Paul Seaman]

Stick with the miller recomended breaker to protect the machine and the wiring feeding it. We don't need to know all about electricity just stick with the recomendations from the experts at miller. Safety is our first responsibility.
Take care,

[rick-l]

Anyone used one of these plugs on the 180?

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/viewCatalogPDF.shtml?browserCompatable=true&adobeCompatable=true&CatPage=521

This should be a link to a Grainger catalog page.

Is it the NEMA 10-50R and 10-50P?

[jjabuck]

I too wired mine like this, but it came on, the leds cycled and then everything went off, and the breaker popped. So am getting ready to put it on a dedicated circuit.

Jim Buckingham

[paulrbrown]

You can use 2 breakers to get a higher rating, My Synchrowave 250 needs a 100 amp, so before I found one, I used two 50amp breakers. Worked fine, just wire white to one and black to other. Paul

[MAC702]

Originally posted by paulrbrown
You can use 2 breakers to get a higher rating, My Synchrowave 250 needs a 100 amp, so before I found one, I used two 50amp breakers. Worked fine, just wire white to one and black to other. Paul

I don't think this would work. Did you actually have the machine cranked up while wired this way? With the 240V, the current would be coming out of one breaker and into the other, and then cycling at 60Hz. Current would not be divided between the two.

What you did was essentially build a two-pole 50-Amp breaker, except you did it the illegal way, which is not to say it was inherently unsafe. It used to be done commonly, though the switches were usually joined so that when one tripped it would trip the other mechanically in case it didn't also trip electrically.

If you look at the construction of a two-pole breaker, it is essentially two single-pole breakers side-by-side, only done the legal way these days.

You cannot get more ampacity by paralleling breakers. Or am I just totally spacing something?



Upon further review.... I guess you didn't say that you put the two breakers right next to each other in the panel. In fact, if they were separated by an odd number of spaces, I suppose the current would be in parallel, being on the same buss, BUT, now you'd need 4 breakers done up this way, two on each buss to get 240V, and the appropriate number of conductors as well. I'm not sure where the cost savings are here, especially considering the inherent safety issues with the complexity of the installation.

Upon even further review... Did you have two (2) two-pole breakers wired to do this, and then jumper the outputs of the breakers to get to two conductors? That could work, too, but many of the issues noted still apply. Each breaker has an A and B phase, so you'd have to parallel your conductors accordingly, taking into account the number of spaces between the two double bole breakers.

[MAC702]

Oh yeah, and if you put a white wire on a breaker, it better be taped with black, red, or blue everywhere you can see it.

[paulrbrown]

I just hooked the white to one and the black to the other, green to ground, the breakers were next to one another, I had first tried it with 30 and 40, but needed more amps, kept triping breakers, later when I moved I used the set up for a year where I could not get the right breeaker, and had machine cranked all the way up,310 amps with no problem, by the way, even at low settings, 70 amps, the lower set ups will cause the 40,30 breakers to fail as the synchrowave drew that much power. I worked for me for as long as I needed....thanks for the reply, Paul

[MAC702]

Glad to hear that it worked for your application, but just keep in mind that it was NOT a 100-amp breaker equivalent, It was essentially a 50-amp two-pole (240V) breaker, you just never exceeded its slow-blowing 50-amp limit.

For others considering the same illegal substitute, do it more safely. Tape the white wire as an ungrounded conductor, either black, red, or blue, wherever it passes through a junction box. And put a short piece of wire through the levers on the breakers so that they will trip at the same time.

Of course, our OFFICIAL recommendation is to go buy the appropriate breaker.

[Paul Seaman]

Mac- I second that motion!

[paulrbrown]

These were also double pole breakers. Paul

[Paul Seaman]

We preach a bit but its only in the name of safety, and because we care. Doing it right prevents tragedy and suffering.

Be well and thanks,