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ARC STARTS - wc24 with 30a

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  • ARC STARTS - wc24 with 30a

    Hello all, I was going to brush up on some AL wire feed this evening when I ran into something I wasn't sure about. The equipment is an XMT304 running a 30A spoolgun through a WC24 controller. This is the first time I have run these together. The gun works fine on a 251 and the controller has a new board in it. The machine works fine. Now the problem: When first starting an arc, after purging, the wire seems to hit the work, arc(not burn back) and push the gun away. It continues to do this for a quarter to half second then works perfectly for as long as you want to go. This is true wether you are spraying or short circuit. The catalog indicates a function in the 24 to "help arc starts". Could this be what is "helping" me by cranking the wire speed to start. I think the rest of the set up is pretty close in terms of clean new material, settings and so on. sorry this is a long one and thanks in advance. JEFF P.S. I haven't had to cuss my 200 yet!
    200DX 350P 625 Plasma & other stuff I forgot

  • #2
    spoolgun frustrations

    jeffscarstrucks- I too have had the exact same problem with the box. You can have 10 starts- 3 work great, 7 hopeless. I find to clip the wire with wire cutters each start/stop does sometime help. I know this will sound dumb....but, hold the spoolgun with both hands, it does help. I have read somewhere that if you pop the cover on the box open there is a pc-mounted pot for wire excceleration. I have yet to use the machine, but will take a look in the next few days. We have orderd a new MM200 with an outlet for the 30A spoolgun. It will be interesting to see how it works with a direct plug-in. It definitly gets the frustration level up, I tend to invent new words and pass it off to someone with more patience. Another thing if you have the sensor ground wire, check the connection on the small ground clamp, it can become beat-up in a shop enviroment and if it is not 100% this will mess up the box. cheers.
    ____________________________________________

    Cheers, and
    are we there yet?

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    • #3
      I would like to know if there is any adjustment to this feature. I think you are right about both hands as I normally try to use one hand as a rest or aid to steady the hand that is holding the gun. It seems easier to maintain the stickout. A steady hand is the product of experience and I don't have nearly enough! Andy, Hawk, Or others with wc24 and a spoolgun, any ideas or maybe tecnique? Thanks, JEFF
      200DX 350P 625 Plasma & other stuff I forgot

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      • #4
        There is a little trimmer pot on the pcb in the WC24 that controls ramp time. Ramp is the time it take the motor to go from 0 to your set speed. How quick this happens will determine arc starts. Also, what wire you are using will determine starts. 4043 will start easier than 5356. 5356 will have to run in slower or in otherwords longer time to ramp up to speed.

        A-

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        • #5
          Guys
          in aluminum and steel wires on my Trailblazer 301G ... the 30A with wc-24 behaves just fine... with no adjustment yet... almost sounds like an arc voltage problem... if you have cleaned your workpiece properly... have you tried to bump up the voltage a bit and checked your tip for good contact??? (most of my mig problems have been tip related)...
          for what it is worth
          Heiti
          .

          *******************************************
          The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

          “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

          Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

          My Blue Stuff:
          Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
          Dynasty 200DX
          Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
          Millermatic 200

          TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

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          • #6
            After reading Andy and Heiti's responses I went back and checked my notes; I wonder if my spray settings were a little low. I was at 22 volts with about 450 in of wire speed.My notes show that I should have been around 26V(3\16 or 1/4 angle or plate...moving really fast). I think I might have still been at the edge of a globular transfer state if that is possible in this case. It is hard to really gauge the speed of the wire in this application other than just making it right. The 251 spoils you in terms of repeatability. The flip side of that is that I had the same problem at 16V-400ipm or trying to spray as above. I guess the narrow foccus of the question is does the 251 go to the wire speed selected immediatly where the wc-24 adjusts the wire speed by gradually increasing the speed. When I used this gun on the 251 it started perfectly and I'm just trying to isolate the variables. I'm using 5053 .035 wire, the same roll on both power supplies. If it does turn out to be the ramp up designed into the 24 I hope to be able to correct it. If it is the duh factor designed into me I MIGHT be able to fix that too. Either way, Thanks for taking the time to help! JEFF
            200DX 350P 625 Plasma & other stuff I forgot

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            • #7
              jeffscarstrucks
              am still a bit mystifyed.. that combination works flawlessly on my trailblazer... regardless of the base metal or wire...
              take care
              Heiti
              .

              *******************************************
              The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

              Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

              My Blue Stuff:
              Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
              Dynasty 200DX
              Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
              Millermatic 200

              TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm going to try to get some time in on Saturday but Iv'e kind of made some mothers day yard work promises... real life always gets in the way of play... not bad if you can get away with it! JEFF
                200DX 350P 625 Plasma & other stuff I forgot

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jeff,

                  The 251 also has a ramp adjustment so maybe it's just the settings. Try playing with the arc control on the XMT. It will also change how the wire starts.

                  A-

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Andy and Heiti, I got a chance to get in the shop for a while and tried to narrow down my problem. I am wondering if oxidation on the wire could cause a problem with starts. I finished a roll of 5356 and put in some 4043 and had the same problem. I then tried a new contact tip...same. I can hit the trigger and the wire will come out, spark, and then continue to come out of the gun without any weld action. It is as though the ground electrode is not connected. If you just stay with it suddenly the arc will start and weld perfectly. As soon as I'm ready to quit I'll get 10 perfect starts like you would need for a tack or to start a bead. Sorry to keep this thread alive but I'm looking for a needle in a haystack. Thanks again, JEFF
                    200DX 350P 625 Plasma & other stuff I forgot

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Out of the blue...What settings and process selection do you have the XMT on?

                      A-

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                      • #12
                        Andy, I have the process switch set to MIG. I have run the inductance knob at 0, at 50, and at 100 and did not notice any effect on starts. I did notice that the puddle seemed more fluid when I had the knob turned up when running a short cicuit bead. To short circuit I used 16V and about 4 1/2 on the wire speed setting on the gun. To spray I was at 24V and 6 on the gun. This was all on som 3/16 angle and plate. I know the spray is a little much for that but it was ok just for practice, really makes you move to stay ahead of it! I have tried using the remote and panel settings but it seems to work either way. I would think that the panel setting is correct since you are not using a normal feeder to control the weld. I have a normal feeder for steel that I use on this machine and all is well there. I was wondering if you might have been up this way with the Busch race being in St. Louis this weekend but it looks like you get to enjoy a weekend at home. Thanks for taking the time with this, JEFF
                        200DX 350P 625 Plasma & other stuff I forgot

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          on a side note today I hooked the gun up to the 251 and it worked perfect. I used the same roll of wire, same piece of aluminum, same contact tip, and the same settings. I'm trying to eliminate the variables and now I'm not sure about the wc24 or the XMT. Think I,m on the right track? Thanks, JEFF
                          200DX 350P 625 Plasma & other stuff I forgot

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            jeff,

                            Earlier you mention the WC24 had a new board in it. Any thought that it may be bad or have the pot setting off from the factory? I run the identical set up (30A, WC24, ALT304 rather than XMT 304) and have never adjusted the ramp up on the trim pot. I also had perfect results using the TB301G as a power source like H80N. Have your tried adjusting the ramp up to see what happens? The straight MIG setting is correct. The other options are pulsed mig and VS mig which are not used in your application.

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                            • #15
                              I might have to agree. The WC24 might seem to be the culprit. It acts like the relay on the pcb is not telling the XMT to activate properly. When you hit the trigger and the wire doesn't seem to arc, does the meters on the XMT register output?

                              A-

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