Poor Decision

[PatrickCarter]

Unfortunately I decided to buy a competitors (Lincoln) Pro Mig-175. WOW do I regret my decision. I was at the EAA Sun'n'Fun fly in this past weekend in Lakeland FL, I got to speak with both Miller and Lincoln representatives. First I stopped by to see what was going on at the Miller display, and I was greeted promptly, and pleasantly. The reps were cordial, as well as extremely helpful (I had a lot of questions this being my first welder) they even let me lay some beads after they showed me some tricks. I then decided to stop by the Lincoln display, I figured since I was a customer of theirs I would be treated with at least a little appreciation, boy was I wrong, I was barely given the time of day, the reps decided it was more important to talk to the other reps, then me. I asked a couple questions, didn’t get straight answers, one rep had no idea what was going on and had to keep asking another rep my questions. So Lincoln was also hosting a "hands on workshop" where they will teach you welding basics and let you give it a shot, I thought a great opportunity to get some more hands on experience. I walked over there and talked to a guy, who was a little friendlier but still seemed upset to be there. He showed me a couple things, and laid down a few beads which weren’t near as good as the Miller crew, I might add. Then it was my turn to try, so I asked him a couple questions, and with each question he got more and more annoyed, I realize I may not be very experienced, but you gotta learn somewhere, and I thought this was the place. Finally I laid some beads with the Lincoln 175, it was ok, the Miller felt better to me, don’t know why, maybe it was the difference in customer service at each booth.

In summary; Miller, great product, great customer service, great people, Lincoln, piss poor customer service, ok product, and boy do I regret buying from them, I wish I could return their welder and pay 100 bucks more to get the Miller machine, although it may be more $$$ now that I can't get the Miller show special.

Thanks for providing a great forum to ask questions, and voice problems, hopefully one day I can afford to covert over to a better company.

Thanks
Patrick Carter
Fastbluetoys.com

[MAC702]

Thanks for the post, Patrick. I got lucky. I, too, had a 50/50 shot at the right company. I went to the distributor (which carried both brands) and the Miller equipment was what was in stock and able to deal. Only afterwards did I truly come to appreciate the Miller difference in customer service and support. I've since stopped dealing with that distributor (California Tool AKA Desert Industrial) because they themselves were really crappy with both service and attitude, but the Miller factory reps have had the best service I've seen in ANY industry. My new dealer is Airgas. So far, so good.

[PatrickCarter]

If I could get the show special on the Miller, I think that I would try to take the lincoln back. Even with the show special the Miller was $100 more, but def. worth it.

Patrick

[H80N]

Patrick
have you checked prices at B&R ??? their prices are pretty good and may be close to the show prices... also have a question about your intended use.. are you planning to use this machine to build a homebuilt aircraft?? if so and if you are planning to use chromemoly tube... you may be better off with a TIG welder...
thanks
Heiti

[PatrickCarter]

Thanks for the advice, but no it is going to be mainly for auto stuff, suspension, and other frame modifications, like sub frames, ect.. As well as misc things around the house.

Thanks
Patrick

[ASKANDY]

Patrick,

I made a deal with the district manager in the area where you are and who's show you attended. I got him to extend to you the show price on this issue. This is being done just for you as you did make an effort to attend our booth and I'm sure it can be verified you were there.
Email me at [email protected] and I'll give you the contact details and numbers to call.

Hope this helps rectify your poor decision

Andy

[HAWK]

Patrick,

Take Andy up on his offer. He has gone way above and beyond to help me out a time or two! Thanks Andy! It is very much appreciated.

As for the "Poor Decision" I once owned a Lincoln Squarewave 175. It was a nice TIG machine and did a fine job. However, I was also shoved aside when it came time for warranty help. The people make Miller a great company to work with and their products are excellent!

[storts]

Patrick

Unfortunately I decided to buy a competitors (Lincoln) Pro Mig-175. WOW do I regret my decision. I was at the EAA Sun'n'Fun fly in this past weekend in Lakeland FL, I got to speak with both Miller and Lincoln representatives. First I stopped by to see what was going on at the Miller display, and I was greeted promptly, and pleasantly. The reps were cordial, as well as extremely helpful (I had a lot of questions this being my first welder) they even let me lay some beads after they showed me some tricks. I then decided to stop by the Lincoln display, I figured since I was a customer of theirs I would be treated with at least a little appreciation, boy was I wrong, I was barely given the time of day, the reps decided it was more important to talk to the other reps, then me. I asked a couple questions, didn’t get straight answers, one rep had no idea what was going on and had to keep asking another rep my questions. So Lincoln was also hosting a "hands on workshop" where they will teach you welding basics and let you give it a shot, I thought a great opportunity to get some more hands on experience. I walked over there and talked to a guy, who was a little friendlier but still seemed upset to be there. He showed me a couple things, and laid down a few beads which weren’t near as good as the Miller crew, I might add. Then it was my turn to try, so I asked him a couple questions, and with each question he got more and more annoyed, I realize I may not be very experienced, but you gotta learn somewhere, and I thought this was the place. Finally I laid some beads with the Lincoln 175, it was ok, the Miller felt better to me, don’t know why, maybe it was the difference in customer service at each booth.

In summary; Miller, great product, great customer service, great people, Lincoln, piss poor customer service, ok product, and boy do I regret buying from them, I wish I could return their welder and pay 100 bucks more to get the Miller machine, although it may be more $$$ now that I can't get the Miller show special.

Thanks for providing a great forum to ask questions, and voice problems, hopefully one day I can afford to covert over to a better company.

Thanks
Patrick Carter
Fastbluetoys.com

I Know alot of people are dying to ask this question,But First,I have to applaud Andy for GOING WELL BEONDE!!!!! Why did you go with the red machine, if your gut,Which is 99.9% rite,(Dont know how it does it,but it does) Just wondering???????? and I think alot are also, good Luck with your new BLUE,Jack

[Tailshaft56]

My guess is the c-note. Kinda surprised at the lincoln guys attitude. could be they had a little too good of a hospitality room the previous night. LOL.

Dennis

[fun4now]

sweet deal ANDY, you da man

maybee i missunderstood but it seems like you got the red befor the event, if that was the case the red reps probly figured you had already bought so you were not a sail that would get them a commition and therefor not werth there time. prity sad. i met some miller reps at an open house at my welding dealer. told them i had just orderd my spec 125 and they asked if i wanted to try theres for fun to see what was headed my way . all in all it was a great expereance and great people. even though my dealer stocks about 35/65 blue/red red sells a lil more as most in my area dont want to spend the extra $100.00 to $150.00 to go blue. but at the open house the miller trailer was there with more stuff than you could count and 2 reps. no 1 from red was there at all. so if ya wanted a demo it was going to be a blue 1


box the thing up and take andy up on his offer,i'v had my MM135 for almost a year and love'ed every minuit. when it came to adding a plasma cutter there was no debate it was gona be blue have never regreted that choice eather.and if i ever manage to get a TIG it to will be blue

[Paul Cataldo]

I just wanted to take a minute here to say that I think what Andy has offered to do here, is very kind and respectable, and this just strengthens my trust in Miller cust. service 100%. (As if it needed strengthening anyway!)

[cruizer]

I don't know, but in my world, a welder is a welder, be it Blue, Red, or Yellow.

They all have various quirks. There are some good reps, some bad ones, some indifferent. Both Miller and Lincoln are using the same basic components, Though the small Lincoln 175 and below are still using a Diode array as apposed to the Millers cheaper SCR pack, The stabilizers and transformers are virtually the same.

It all comes down to the output waveform. A scoped wave form on both red and blue machines are identical,(conventional machines) thus the weld should be identical.

Inverters are somewhat different, Lincoln in this case appears to win out.

[Steved]

I don't know, but in my world, a welder is a welder, be it Blue, Red, or Yellow.

They all have various quirks. There are some good reps, some bad ones, some indifferent. Both Miller and Lincoln are using the same basic components, Though the small Lincoln 175 and below are still using a Diode array as apposed to the Millers cheaper SCR pack, The stabilizers and transformers are virtually the same.

It all comes down to the output waveform. A scoped wave form on both red and blue machines are identical,(conventional machines) thus the weld should be identical.

Inverters are somewhat different, Lincoln in this case appears to win out.

Agreed that from the outside the welders are very similar although the electronics inside may be very different.

There are literally thousands of various diodes and SRCs each designed for specific operating parameters that are in turn linked to the electronics that are controlling them. The 'cheaper SCR' pack is suggesting that the unit is cheaper although there is not enough information to make that observation without reviewing the schematics and design in detail.

As with the transformers, there are many varieties of wire, turns, ferrite cores, varnishes, cooling etc that go into the design that may not be apparent by looking at the exterior of the transformer.

True that the output waveform may be similar for newer machines but the true test of the design is to operate both units at maximum ratings for extended periods of time and then scope out the waveforms. Only then will the selection of components and design practices become evident.

This is not a push for Red, Blue or Yellow rather adding to the unknowns of electronics. I guess in the end who ever supports their products the best will win out. I am sure that there are some bad experiences with all of the varieties of welders. The real question is: Who will step up to the plate when that happens?

[lramberson]

Cruiser, wrong wrong wrong...

Cruiser Your Quote of Inverters are somewhat different, Lincoln in this case appears to win out.
Sorry, not in any way or form.
The DX200 I use will BLOW AWAY the 205 & I was red trained but learned what blue means...
Laurence

[cruizer]

Try out a miller XMT 304 and compare the characteristics to a Lincoln 350 pro, big weld difference. I sold a company in town here 24 XMT units with Optimas, and recently brought in 7 of the 350 pro units with the advanced process kit. According to the welders themselves, the Lincolns are definate winners over the Millers

Millers optional Optima pulser doesn't come close to the advanced process kit in the 350 pro.

While I like low idle modes in the Miller 302, the weld on the Lincoln 305 is still significantly better with the way the chopper module works.

There are alot of poor machines on both sides of the fence though.

I deal with hundreds of of complaints a year. I've heard it all........

As for scoping a machine before and after a weld, a load bank is used to simulate welding. A scope is simply there to verify proper output. I prefer the Miller load bank to the Lincoln version, though I own both as well as a further 20K in other test equipment.


I make $65/hr for what ever your machine is when it breaks down