Dynasty 200DX vs TA185

[b2major9th]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the great information! I have about $2k to spend if I want to get the machine by summer (that is when I will have the most time to use it because my kids basketball season is over!). If I had to save for a syncrowave 250 I'd probably have to wait until next year. I will definitely check out both the t.a. 185, Dynasty 200 DX, and syncrowave 180. If I could get some demo time on one or all of the machines, that would help a lot. If they prove to be truly inadequate, then I would defer purchase until I could afford the larger machines. Unfortunately, there are no trade shows out my way in the near future; perhaps I could see if my local dealers would allow me to test a machine. Or is anyone in the southern california area?


Mike

[Canuck]

would I have to have a water cooled torch? I now that they are better and have used them but am afraid that I cannot aford one. Would a larger aircooled torch help at all? or maybe just welding for short periods of time with that hot gas?

[HAWK]

Canuck,

I'd try the gas mix of your choice using your existing air cooled torch. You will know when it's too hot to handle. You will feel the heat through your gloves. Just take a break and let the torch cool. If the hotter he/ar mix and the Sync 180 perform to your liking, then check pricing on a water cooled torch.

[HAWK]

Originally posted by GTA/SPEC
The sync 180 will handle any amount of helium in an argon mixture. I had one, when i was in highschool, six years ago. I routinly pumped 75he/25ar through it on AC, and 100he through it on DC straight. I had no problems with the arc starting or the stability. But, i also had a watercooled torch....

I was able to weld 1/2 inch and larger billit aluminum sections on AC or DC with the 2 mixes that i described above. Its not about the amperage, its about the input wattage and time.

GTA/SPEC,

Please explain the procedure you followed for the 1/2" and larger billets. I have done a number of 3/8" to 3/8" fillets on 6 inch test coupons with the Dynasty 200DX running at maximum output over a period of time without preheat or thermal insulation. These welds were difficult to achieve. The time required bordered on the machine duty cycle (not the published, but the actual amount of time before the machine starts shutting down and delivers considerably less than its maximum output).

My question is this: If 3/8" fillets are barely achievable with the 200 amp Dynasty due to machine output shutdown via thermal overload protection, then how did the 180 amp Syncrowave deliver its maximum output long enough to sufficiently overcome the thermal conductivity of the 1/2" billets? I am speaking of your use of 75% helium/25% argon mixture on AC.

I have also run pure helium on DCSP using 5/32" filler rod on 1/2" aluminum. I found a 300 amp DC machine producing maximum output was required to effectively get the job done. I ran multipasses with a 300 degreee farenheit interpass temperature.

Nowhere in your post do you state the use of preheating, multipass welds, interpass temperatures, or thermal blanketing insulation. Did you forget to include any of these factors or were they simply not part of your procedure?

Please understand I am not questioning your integrity or the welds you made. I assume from your forum name that you are a GTAW specialist. I am sincerely interested in learning to reproduce your results.

[H80N]

GTA/SPEC
could you give us a little more info on the size & mass of these 1/2 inch billet sections?? preheat??? you have me in quite a quandry on this one...
thanks
Heiti

[GTA/SPEC]

I need to preface this with an explanation of my situation. I have spent years developing methods for joining aluminum and other metals that would be thought of as impractical or impossible. Due to my heavy investment, there are some pieces of info that i cannot share. I think that you guys can respect that. I can tell you that i rarely to never preheat aluminum. I use 1/16 tungsten for all of my DC-HE work with aluminum, and my filler is never bigger than 3/32, usually 1/16, I can tell you that i can join any size billit of aluminum with pure argon, with under 150 amps of AC. My bead size, on any size of aluminum, can be under .045" wide without filler, and under .060" with filler. So far i havent found an alloy of aluminum that i could not join. I know that these practices are streching the reach of beleivability, but my procedures are based on theorys that NASA developed for joining lithium alloyed aluminum.
Please understand that i do not mean to insult anyone by not sharing all of my info on this topic.

[HAWK]

GTA/SPEC,

It seems you are recommending a machine, the Syncrowave 180, that can effectively weld heavy aluminum billit without elaborating on the actual procedure. You mentioned the word "join" in your last post. There is a difference in joining material and creating a structurally sound weld. Given some time and friction joining of thick billet is possible, but impractical and unsound!

The aerospace industry leaders such as Boeing, Douglas, Magellan and others approached Miller with specific needs and applications for welding aluminum and the Aerowave was the result. If you are indeed doing as you claim, perhaps Miller need only produce 150-180 GTAW machines!

You are not making sense. 1/16" tungsten tends to boil off around 90 amps. Even if you multi-passing your material it does not seem possible to create a structurally sound weld within these parameters.

If you are going to recommend a machine that is capable of doing the job without giving the correct procedures to accomplish it, then many a buyer will be highly disappointed when they are unable to duplicate your said results. Please do not give false recommendations unless you are able to share your process with the rest of the general welding population. I am well versed in GTAW as are others on this forum. I have spoken with several CWI's and a WE who are totally unaware of how this 1/2" and thicker aluminum can be welded soundly given the parameters you have stated.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. If you are willing to share additional information, then perhaps your statements may become more believeable.

[jeffscarstrucks]

Mike, I usually don't get into "who's Best" topics because they are way to subjective,too many applications to compare apples to oranges. I did want to say that in your price range the 200DX is a great machine for a hobbiest as it will do many things very well...Very thin, thick by home standards, dirty or old. Old being a concern because you mentioned collectibles. It's been my (limited) experience that some older stuff you might work is not the higher Quality alloy we get used to. The Dynasty can be set up to work through some impuritity issues without having to put too much heat(stress on a collectible) into a repair. I had a Lincoln 175 TIG that served me well and bought the 200 as a result of what Iv'e read here. It is one of those tool decisions that I could not be happier with. I know it is not an easy choice when it comes to spending but if you buy the machine you can save some money on some other components. I know some people will roll their eyes at this but there are a lot of repair shops that have a huge inventory of used parts that are in near perfect shape(not junk). Read parts as in pedals,torches, regs, and tons of support equipment. I have some items Iv'e bought like that that have been perfect. Others haven't and they always made good on them. Besides it's a lot of fun to root through the big welder graveyard...maybe I should get a life? OK, way to long , Good luck and let us know, JEFF

[timw]

HAWK, My first job after I got out of the ARMY in 1970 there were some old timers who told us young guys that they used to make a stick rod that was aluminum on one side and steel on the other for welding steel and alum together. Have you ever run into them? They were probably all bought up by NASA.

[HAWK]

timw,

I have never seen such a critter. I guess you and I are driving the same car here. Also back in the 1970's there was a filler that claimed to be for welding steel to aluminum using the GTAW process. It was a number 25M bronze rod or an Oxweld # 14 Al rod. There is documentation that this filler worked, but not for structural applications. I am pretty sure it was first tested by the the Linde division of Union Carbide Corp.

[GTA/SPEC]

HAWK,

You and I are playing ball on two different levels. I gave you several key components to the techniques that i previously explained. You had no interest in taking time and trying the process with the hints that i gave you. You are more focused on rationalizing the fact that you can't do it. I gave you an oppertunity to learn something new, and you dismissed the insight that would have led to an understanding of these techniques. For the most part, I respect you and your knowledge of most processes. In this case, you seem more intent on believing what the text books say, not believing in what could be possible with hard work. I uses these abstract theories on a daily baisis and use them to solve my customers problems and ultimatly put money in my pocket and my customers pockets. Believe what you want, I dont care. Your abilities, just like my abilities are only limited by our imagination.

[dseman]

This one seems just to interesting to let it go by the wayside. I'll guess the process that GTA/SPEC is talking about is some version of VPPA welding--variable polarity plasma arc welding. It was used for the shuttle fuel tanks and lithium aluminum alloys which were highly cracking prone. It combines keyhole plasma technique with complete adjustability of the ac waveform--both dcen and dcep portions, much like the aerowave does for tig. Some reports indicated up to 20mm butt welds

Am I close???

-dseman

[HAWK]

GTA/SPEC,

I am not saying you are not making it happen. However, I don't think you are using conventional methods of GTAW, hot or cold wire, to do it. If you are working with VPPAW, as dseman suggests, and other other high tech methods of joining these materials, I respect that. You have mentioned VPW in one of your other posts. The only thing I don't want to happen is for a newbie to the field of GTAW read your posts and believe he or she is going to accomplish your results.

I am very open minded and a willing to learn from young and old alike. I will re-read your post and see what may jump out at me. Are there are other hints you are willing to share? I too play on the unconventional side of the industry. I don't think too many people will agree that carbon steel and its alloys are readily weldable with AC. Though when questioned on my methods and processes I have willingly shared my knowledge and information. Perhaps you are unwilling to do that. That is up to you. I will leave the final post of this topic to you.

[GTA/SPEC]

HAWK,

Presently, I do have VPPA capability. However, there was a day when I just had a Syncrowave 180SD and I had to find ways to overcome shortfalls. I am honest when I say that I commonly ran up to 3/8 and 1/2 aluminum billits, along with aluminum mold tool and die type of stuff. The only special equipment that I had was a water cooled torch and several different mixes of argon and helium. I should preface this with a disclaimer that it was alot of hard work and was only accomplished with lots of practice. Dont buy a Syncro180SD and believe that you can do this right off the bat.

I don't think too many people will agree that carbon steel and its alloys are readily weldable with AC

I dont understand where you where going with this. Please explain.

[HAWK]

GTA/SPEC,

Okay! We are on the same page now! Don't worry. For conventional tig work I use a 2 Dynastys: 1 D200DX with a Coolmate 4 and DB20M25R torch and a D300DX with a coolmate 3 and several different torch and head arrangements. However, I too have had to make the thick stuff work by going up to 90HE/10AR with a 200 amp machine and also with DCSP and pure helium. Yes it is a lot of hard work difficult to master. The higher amperage machine would have been a better choice for such work, but I did not have it.

Glad to explain: I use the Dynasty series set up for AC, a high arc frequency to compensate for the helium in my argon, and a balance setting between 95% and 99%. This is nearly DC welding, but gives just enough EP arc time to create that extra necessary cleaning action for certain materials. I have found pure argon to be best when working in the .004" up to .125" range. The helium addition works well up to 1" as this is as far as I have pushed the process so far. The filler addition has to be quick and exact to avoid undercut when dealing with the He/Ar mixes. I typically run 75%He/25%Ar, but do use 50%He/50%Ar. Does this help.

By no means am I recommending this method to anybody nor do I claim any responsibility for results obtained by this method. I am saying is has solved more than one problem for me and my customers. I appreciate your interest.