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  • Miller VS Lincoln

    Andy

    I am looking at the Syncrowave 180 SD compared to the Lincoln Precision Tig 185.I have a couple of questions. Do you know the benefits of the new micro start from Lincoln compared to the Miller and why would you need pulsed tig. Isn't that used more on aluminum. Any ideas.

    Jim

  • #2
    The Lincoln uses 2 seperate rectifiers for low and high amps. The low rectifier is called "micro-start", for less than 10 amps. I dont think that it is anything special. The built in pulser is a primitive unit, dont buy the red one because it has a pulser. The avaliable PC300 pulser is much more comprehensive than the built in Lincoln. I had a Sync180 in high school with a PC300, it worked excellent. The only reason that i upgraded was because I wanted variable AC frequency output.

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    • #3
      Great answer GTA.

      The Sync 180SD also has programable starts for different material thickness. You can choose a soft start for thin material, med and hot start for the thick stuff. We also offer a user adjustable balance control for more cleaning or penetration. All in all the Sync is better. I have welded with both and truthfully, both have good arc performance.

      thanks for the question
      good luck

      Andy

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      • #4
        ive always prefered millers,

        i cut my TIGGIN TEETH on a syncrowave but i will tell you what that p.t. 185 is a pretty nice machine,(I HAVENT TRIED THE 180SD) i dont know your skill level with tig and what you plan on welding so its hard to say,

        i set up the p.t. 185 for a buddie of mine a few weeks ago and i was never impressed with the lincoln 175 (it was a tinker toy !) but they






        have come a long way, its nice and small simple to use, the pulse is a nice built in feature, granted its kind of basic. but i got some really nice welds with it and my buddie only paid 1600.00 inculcing the cart !

        this past weekend i used a t/a/ 185 inverter, it was very nice but alot more complecated to run and set up, but from what the t/a sales guy told me is that the transformer machinces will be out dated in five years

        so the best advise i could give anyone is try em all out !!! its a big investment and shop around alot of these guys will wheel and deal when you start flashing the $$$$

        and dont forget about the dynasty200 from what i hear its a pretty b.a. machine !!

        brian

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        • #5
          I was doing my homework looking to buy a MM 210 mig 2 1/2years ago. I went to the local guy that does all lines welder repair and ask his opinion of the 210. His reply, "If it's Blue Buy IT!!" I've always been happy with Miller products.
          I bought a Lincoln 300/300 stick/tig that needed work, I found that it was made in late 70's and it had a bad board in it. I contacted Lincoln and the board was no longer avalible. So I ended up with a REALLY BIG stick welder that had a torch and foot pedal attached to it!

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          • #6
            Both are excellent machines, you will not be disappointed with either. As far as the red units go, a lot of their TIG unit's are produced overseas, while *ALL* the blue stuff is made here. Both of these units have an nice smooth arc. I was considering the lincoln, as I liked the built in pulser, the adjustable/auto balance control. But I have found all of these features and more than I could ever be happy with in the Dynasty 200dx, in a package 1/4 the weight, and size. Never regretted my decision for a moment.
            -illuzion

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            • #7
              http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...re/mc03119.pdf

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              • #8
                I dont agree with most of that comparison. Millers knife switch is bullit proof. I have had to replace more Lincoln polarity and tapped xformer switches than i care to remember. Millers SCR is a faster acting device than Lincolns, and cost more as a component. The solder joint only means that it takes longer to replace and costs more in labor. I hate the fact that everything is soldered in the Lincolns. Funny, Lincoln uses plastic solenoid cases in their SW 355. I have had to change several of those out. Not because they leaked, worse, they asperated atmosphere into the sheild gas! Never had to change a Miller solenoid. Never had to work on a Sync180. If the squarewave pro was so much better, why did they have to change it?

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                • #9
                  THE BOTTOM LINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                  the bottom line is that both red and blue are good machines, i enjoy using anything from the two companies.

                  however it has been said that lincoln isnt making all of there machines on U.S. soil

                  but come to find out some of millers machines are not made on U.S. soil either, i believe that its the inverters (not quite sure )

                  both RED and blue are a **** of a lot better then the easbs and t/a, solar, snap ons of the world

                  it all comes down to where you live, so you can get parts, cost and what you feel comfortable using.

                  but my personal preferance is miller then lincoln then whatever is avalible

                  bria n

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                  • #10
                    Brian,

                    All of our macines are made here in the good USA. A couple years ago we did have a partnership with Fronius that was desolved because of reliability issues and support. We feel we can make our products better here. The only units still made over the pond are welders for the European market. These welders are ONLY sold over there and anything for our US market is built here.

                    The bottom line is Yes..Both red and Blue have some good units AND GTA is also right in saying that our units are easier to work on. Our units also go through a more rigid failure analysis and are tested at higher temps than the Lincolns. But to split hairs on a unit like the Sync 180 and the 175 would almost be a waste of time. I would go by the service you get in your area.

                    Andy

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                    • #11
                      andy, i was just on ebay and saw a miller inverter that on the back it said made in austria ? thats the only reason why i said that..

                      when is miller going to make a 180 to 200 amp tranformer tig w/ built in pulse for under 2000.00 ? (oh and by the way if you decide to build one you can send me the first one since it was my idea)

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                      • #12
                        Yea..those were the fronius units We took a step back from that one. Call it a learning experience.

                        You can probably get into a Sync180 and a PC300 for around $2K and have a better system.

                        A-

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                        • #13
                          Arcdawg,Fronius does build some pretty trick stuff, so does SanRex. Thermal Arc markets SanRex here in the states. All of the "GTS" style inverts or SanRex. SanRex actually builds electronic components, like Motorala. Hobart Advanced Systems did some very trick stuff just before ITW dissolved them. They had orbital, plasma arc, and variable polarity tig. Along with the HAWCs automated tig/plasma line. I have a HAWCs 2 system here in my shop, its got a 6 axis Motoman arm and a 4 axis Aronson palletizing positioner.

                          Dont down stuff just cause it isnt Blue Or Red.

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                          • #14
                            gta, im not knocking anything....i own a hobart machine and i also use linde machines t/a machines even sears or whatever is at my disposal....

                            i just prefer red or blue over white, white and green, purple or yellow......

                            i hope i wasnt putting down anybody or there machines!

                            brian

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GTA/SPEC
                              Arcdawg,Fronius does build some pretty trick stuff, so does SanRex. Thermal Arc markets SanRex here in the states. All of the "GTS" style inverts or SanRex. SanRex actually builds electronic components, like Motorala. Hobart Advanced Systems did some very trick stuff just before ITW dissolved them. They had orbital, plasma arc, and variable polarity tig. Along with the HAWCs automated tig/plasma line. I have a HAWCs 2 system here in my shop, its got a 6 axis Motoman arm and a 4 axis Aronson palletizing positioner.

                              Dont down stuff just cause it isnt Blue Or Red.
                              Good Point! Fronius builds some super nice equipment. There equipment is a very hot item in the european market. As a matter of fact some of the Fronius TIG machines on par with the Dynasty are considerably quieter on AC operation than the Miller Dynasty. I have a Dynasty 200DX and love it. However, there are other good and comparable machines available. I think the Fronius/Miller partnership went south due to communication and follow up engineering/testing issues. Both companies build great stuff. You most always get into trouble putting your name on a product manufactured by someone else!

                              Thermal Arc does make some killer high end stuff. However, for the most part the duty cycle and bang for the buck is considerably less than Miller or Lincoln. I am speaking of their 400 amp professional series of TIG/SMAW and GMAW machines. These are typically 3 phase industrial pieces and are quite good. On the down side I must say customer service is about as poor as it comes with Thermal Arc. The little TA185 can't hold an arc to the Dynasty 200DX.

                              I have not had any experience with San Rex, but have heard only good things from those that have.

                              I am in no way downing Miller or Lincoln as a whole. Both have good and less than par machines. These engineering failures are going to happen. If no bad machines were produced, then the engineers would be paid a lot to do nothing! If you don't fail occasionally, you are not trying anything new.

                              Take a look at STT (Surface Tension Transfer). Lincoln owns the patent. I am sure when Miller and others are able to market it, there will be some more awesome power sources available! Unless you are really serious about the best production enviroment for thin walled material with an almost infinitely contollable arc bordering on the quality of hot wire auto TIG and money is no object, STT is no way to go.

                              I have not seen any plasma arc needle welding or other exotic process offered by BLUE or RED in recent years. I just want to say each and every manufacturer has their specialty and we owe it to ourselves as professional welders and/or hobbyists to research and evaluate the necessary process(es)available as well as the companies offering such technology. If we do not, then we are not only cheating ourselves as welders, but also our clients for whom we provide the service.

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