Mig Tig and roll cages

[SoCalTA]

Hey guys,

I searched for "roll cages" and read back from the first posts forward. It seems that advice has changed somewhat over time and I would like to get some clarification. It seemed that the earlier responses favored using ONLY TIG for roll cage building. More recently there were posts that offered the MM210 and MM251 as very good machine to MIG weld roll cages. I know Andy has mentioned many times that many of the race shops he is associated with have MM210's. Some said that TIG is really the only "safe" way to build cages while others again pointed to what the shops use. So my questions are:

1. Has the change in tone come about because the MIG machines are better now than they were earlier (on par with TIG)?

2. What is the current thought/verdict on MIG welding for roll cages and how does it really compare to TIG?

Thanks,

Jorge

[arcdawg]

some racing groups,

im not 100% sure but nhra and other sanctioning bodies only want tig welded cages,

personaly i rather have a cage that is tiged, by my self of course

but back in the day they were oxy acc welded and i have even seen suspesion parts stick welded...

i guess that it would have to do with proper fitment and heat input.

i too am curious about the details,

brian

[Buzz]

MIG TIG ?

It was explained to me thatthe reason TIG is preferred over MIG has to do with control of the temperature. With MIG there is no precise temperature control and it starts out hot, whereas TIG is even. Chromoly has a tendency to crack with vast temperature changes. Maybe Andy can clear this up.

[Paul Seaman]

On cages many sanctioning bodies are requiring tig nhra,and woo for examples and thereasons are mostly heat input and stress cracks. For personal building on dirt cars non-professional classes mig does work. The trick is to reduce the amperage setting from the spec. chart and jump to e70 wire or e80 wire. Seriously test a few scraps in different positions and cut them up to check the weld sections, for the tests over penetration and temp distortions are your enemy. Decide carefully and proceed cautiously protective cages are a dangerous thing if they fail, and trust me that is guilt if it fails.


Sorry if that is a kill joy, but you know me safety first above all else. pjs

[SoCalTA]

Andy if you have a moment I would be very interested in your thoughts and input...

[kid]

NHRA requires Tig for 4130 tubing, mild steel can be mig welded

[ASKANDY]

MIG or TIG...

Let's clarify what I said in the past. Most NASCAR teams MIG weld the chassis. It's mild steel. Now with Chr/Moly, I only recommend TIG. As of today, only 2 NASCAR teams are TIG welding chassis. They are Penske and Yates. As far as performance and safety....about the same. The TIG chassis will be lighter because of less weld material deposition but this equates to only about 11 lbs per chassis. During a chassis deflection test we did, the TIG welded chassis did perform slightly better but those types of stresses will never be seen on the track so both chassis perform equally well. I build stock cars and we MIG weld our chassis. I do, however TIG most of the suspension items. Some sanctioning bodies require TIG welding. Check your rules.

Hope this helps

Here are some pics of the chassis we are doing now.


Andy

[ASKANDY]

#2

[ASKANDY]

#3

[arcdawg]

andy, those are some SWEET WELDS, any hints? are you pulsing? Ect

MAN, IM GREEN W/ ENVY !!!

BRIAN

[ASKANDY]

No pulse,

I have a MM210, MM251 and a Regency on a boom welder that does them all. Myself and one other guy does most of the welding and a third guy does fit up and tack. We use the same wire most of you'all do. ER70S-6 and 75/25 gas. Just been at it awhile.

Andy

[SoCalTA]

WOW Andy ... VERY nice welds.


Thanks for the response and clarification.

[ASKANDY]

No problem SoCalTA.

Good question that we haven't heard in awhile. Our motorsports forum doesn't get too many motorsports questions anymore....oh well. It's still a fun place!

Andy

[arcdawg]

andys right !

last time i checked this was for motorsports welding, if people need to talk about genral welding go to the a.w.s. site or hobarts site and or welding web.

brian

its really nice to have a board that is specialized !!!!!

[ASKANDY]

Don't get me wrong....I enjoy all your questions and if I can help clear up any info regarding our products...bring 'em on. Besides I'm sure some of our guests will eventually get into some sort of hobby car or race car (hopefully)

By the way I love the thread of project pics.

Andy