Loader Bucket Repair Question

[WillieB]

I've got a Dynasty, a MM252, but most often use on these projects a 1974 Twentieth Century 295 AC/DC 100% Duty Cycle that is so rusty you can see through the case. It has served me well for many years. At present I'm in the process of refurbishing a flatbed/stake dump body on my 1976 Chevy C65 truck. The Bobcat 250 that looks like a wounded warrior is teamed with the MIG for that. There are a large number of stitch welds onto old rusty steel. Nothing beats 6010 for blasting through rust!

As for worn cutting edge; consider a small grouser stock. It is sold for crawler tractor tracks, but works well for bucket edges without replacing the whole edge at considerable expense. Made of manganese steel, they are bullet proof. I have one on an 8 ton Tractor loader backhoe that has been there 8 years. On the advice of a friend, I used Messier? 80TAC+ a stick rod that works well on AC or DC+. It goes on like caulk! You can put edge on in one piece,(cut a straight edge on the worn one), it'll break as it cools. Or you can put it on in three pieces, not welding the butt ends till after it has cooled. I like 7018 for most of these welds, it avoids, in large part, A hydrogen layer that interferes with the fusion, has a level of ductility as it cools and shrinks, and is soft enough to be the point of failure should you get a stress failure years from now. A sharper edge can be cut with an acetylene torch if needed.

[ryanjones2150]

Very true. Sadly, but that fear of repair cost is another factor that is driving people to the cheap import machines. Service is of less importance when the cost is a fraction of a preferred machine.

[old jupiter]

Ryan, one thing that holds me back from buying something like Willie's new machine is the disparity in owner reports on similar gear (haven't heard much about the new 280 yet). Some owners are very happy, have no trouble, and tell us the great adjustability of the newest inverters let them do better work than ever. Others have had troubles, sometimes repeated troubles, but Miller or the vendor has taken care of them, sometimes even after their units had gone out of warranty, which is good. But not a few fellas are really pissed off at how much they have had to spend on smoked electronics. Undoubtedly some of these instances were the fault of the owner. But I read just enough of these stories to hold me back from buying new stuff.

[ryanjones2150]

Everything these days has a confuser inside it to control the dadgum thing. I'm honestly curious to see how well the inverter machines hold up when compared to the old transformer ones. I bet some guys here have some seriously old gear they're still using. I remember back on the farm, our buzz box was ancient then! But it's not just welding equipment, it's everything. Such a disposable group we've become.

[old jupiter]

Hah, funny, heck, at my age I can hardly remember yesterday. But I do remember a few weeks ago, talking to another old coot in McDonalds. I had strained my pore ol' lower back and was whining about it. The other guy says, "Smitty, you're in the fourth quarter now; whatever's bothering you won't be bothering you much longer, so don't worry about it." Owwww!!!

Willie just misunderstood me, happens all the time, we're good. I don't know about beat-up stuff, but I do like SIMPLE stuff, . . . most of the time. But boy, sometimes the new gear, like Willie's new Dynasty 280, sure could help if I had it and really knew how to use it, which I do not.

[ryanjones2150]

I don't even remember what we were talking about...so...sounds good!!

I still like old, beat up welding gear. I don't think that's an insult. For me, the old, beat up stuff is my style.

[old jupiter]

Well, okay, I'm not too smart myself, but have learned to check the digging edge of a bucket (or other earthmoving implement) with a magnet.

If the steel is non-magnetic or slightly magnetic, it's manganese steel. Any welding of that, to itself or to mild steel, is done with low-hydrogen rod or wire, and no pre-heat beyond taking the chill off (so maybe 90F), and if you have to run many passes take your time and don't let it get very hot. As manganese steel gets bashed up, it work-hardens (and becomes slightly more magnetic); the authorities tell us it's best to grind off the bashed areas if you are going to build-up that area, and of course if you are building up the working edge you use layers of actual build up rod, not 7018, finishing with two or three layers of hardsurfacing, not 7018. Manganese steel is unusual stuff, worth looking up before you weld on it or surface it. And for that matter, hard surfacing technique is different from welding technique is important ways; for instance, where welding calls for good penetration, hardfacing calls for light penetration, minimizing mixing with the base-metal.

OTOH, if the scraper edge is definately magnetic you've got some variety of carbon steel, very likely an AR abraision-resistant grade. Again, use a low-hy rod or wire, but first give it a good preheat, depending on what it is, up to 450F, although again you don't want the inter-pass temperature to get very much beyond that.

Okay, Ryan, did I get that right? LOL

[WillieB]

Oh, I tell manganese steel from Abrasion Resistant varieties by asking my steel dealer. He's one of the smartest men I know. He has lots of framed stuff on the wall to support my statement, and he's a genuinely nice man. He's forgot more about metals than I will ever know.

[old jupiter]

Willie, I was joking.

And envious of your cool new machine. I'm a cheapskate, and can't quite justify buying any more gear, but I fully get your motivation to treat yourself to it, and I'm real tempted . . .

[WillieB]

At 58 years of age I treated myself to my dream welder. I too have lived with less than the best equipment. The ugliest welder I own gets the most use. Feel free to criticize me for lack of knowledge, I don't deserve criticism for snobbery.

[ryanjones2150]

Loader Bucket Repair Question

I love crude conventional welding gear.

[old jupiter]

I think you'd ultimately save yourself a lot of time (and time is money) if you get yourself some actual build-up rod and some real hardfacing rod, farm or not, Bentrod. 7018 is pretty lame as a working edge of any earthmoving equipment, and just as inadequate for saving worn teeth on dog-clutches that are on a lot of farm equipment. Sure, the salesmen want you to buy their special rods for each particular job, and this is not always necessary, but hard-surfacing is a multi-million-dollar industry and some good technology has come out of it that benefits even the little guys.

Willie here will probably be happy to tell you how he determines whether a cutting edge is manganese, or AR400 or whatever. Makes a real difference in how you deal with it. Although since I see he has a new Dynasty 280, there might be limits to how much he feels like bothering with us low-lifes with our crude conventional welding gear . . .

[WillieB]

I use a high manganese stick rod for hard facing. It work hardens, but remains ductile under the surface. You can build up worn areas, and use it as joint filler. I plow snow with a loader bucket, the bottom rubbing on pavement would roll the cutting edge, and ruin the back of the bucket. The high manganese rod works wonders, a wide bead on the under side of the leading edge of the cutting edge practically eliminates wear here.

[WillieB]

Years (30) ago, I borrowed a John Deere 750 with loader & backhoe to move a few big rocks. It was slow going, had to dig around them, unearthing a 4' diameter boulder meant digging a 8' diameter hole! When I got them on the grass, I picked them up one at a time, it was too much for the bucket, I broke the cutting edge in the center. I felt bad, so I fixed it, gouging it out with acetylene, preheating with a rosebud tip. I welded with 7018. When I returned it, the owner didn't say a thing about it, but I could see in his face he was crushed. I ordered a new one from John Deere, cut the old out, and welded in a new one. Even sanded it down, and painted it!

The tractor now belongs to a different friend. The bucket still looks good

[ryanjones2150]

Loader Bucket Repair Question

That paste hardfacing sounds like an interesting old-school job! I'm actually interested in doing this just for kicks. I've heard of the stuff that's sprayed on, some sort of thermal spray jobby, but that's as far as my knowledge goes.

Never thought about using 7018 for hardfacing. I know it's been used as buildup under some hardfacing though. However, seems to me that if you're gonna run some rod for hardfacing, may as well run some hardfacing. I've used some mig for buildup under the hardfacing alloy, but that's mostly because that stuff is expensive.