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Loader Bucket Repair Question

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  • Bentrod
    replied
    Another farm trick is to just use 7018 as a surfacing rod. It is not hard I know, but adding on layers means you wear off layers before getting to the steel and so it ultimately lasts longer. I do this with plow parts since they wear out so fast on the rocky ground we have here.

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  • old jupiter
    replied
    If you take a cylinder head from an old car to any auto machine shop to get a valve-grind, they will machine it to take Stellite valve seat inserts, needed to prevent valve head/seat recession when using modern unleaded gasoline. This tech and the material is several decades old. Good stuff.

    I never did this, but fifty years ago, when a lot of farmers and other welders had twin carbon-arc torches that came as accessories for their AC buzz-box welders, they could buy various hardfacing compounds in a paste form. I take it they warmed up the part to some degree, troweled-on the paste and then heated up the works with their arc torch (or with an O/A torch). Did any of you ever do this or see it done? Many of you probably have encountered Forney's little red book on basic welding, probably written in the late-'40s and printed for years and years. The Forney book had a section on working with the arc-torch, and referred to this hardfacing paste. Where would you find it now? I googled this one time, but couldn't find a supplier. Nor any suppliers of the carbons for the torch, either, however there's at least one outfit in India still making carbons for theaters still running projectors with carbon arc light. These are the good clean-running graphite type; they're longer than the old arc-torch carbons, but you can cut them down. There, that's everything I know about that, LOL. I have a twin-carbon torch, and occasionally use it for quick heating jobs or loosening broken studs and bolts, and even have brazed a couple of things just to show it off!! Some of us love to know about these "old, dangerous-looking tools." I'd like to try hardfacing with it if I could find the paste, just for the fun of it.
    Last edited by old jupiter; 09-24-2015, 09:06 AM.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    Loader Bucket Repair Question

    I knew that hardfacing came in braze and TIG forms, but I never knew anyone that used it. Seems like that process would be for a more precise application of the material. Sure sounds time consuming! If I had to do a loader bucket today, I'd absolutely use either a stick rod or wire feed.

    I have no doubt you'll get a similar result from any quality hardfacing product. Maybe that stuff you're looking for comes in those forms.

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Someone in Israel has stellite filler rod on ebay today.

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  • mongobird
    replied
    A few things. Stellite is the hard facing product brand I applied to the cutting edge of the Ford bucket. I use the bucket frequently and have been happy with the quality and build. I have been VERY happy with where I applied the stellite product. Boy, did it last!!

    I just wish I could find more. The stuff I used was for OA or TIG application.

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  • old jupiter
    replied
    Sorry, bud, I made a wrong assumption about your experience, because I've never encountered a factory bucket that crappy. My Kubota experiences have been with maybe bigger machines that had better buckets.
    Last edited by old jupiter; 09-23-2015, 08:43 PM.

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  • Bentrod
    replied
    I understand all that, I have welded my share of buckets too, but in my tractor's case anyway, Kubota did not put much effort into longevity...just a strip of sharpened mild steel flat bar down the front edge and welded it on.

    I'm not questioning your advice for most buckets, I am just not sure many of you understand how cheap these buckets really are made. They are the bare minimum to get by, and if the owner pushes snow at all, with that non-hardened cutting edge dragging on frozen ground, concrete or asphalt; it does not take long to crack, bend and break.

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  • old jupiter
    replied
    Bentrod, even a "general-purpose" bucket, unless built by an amateur, will almost surely have a separate piece welded on as the working edge of the bucket, and this will be something more appropriate to the task than mild steel, something that very probably calls for low-hy rod (not 6010/6011, however well it penetrates) and since it is fairly thick compared to the rest of the bucket, it frequently calls for some degree of preheat. It might not appear to be "hardened," certainly not file-hard, since the chief mechanical quality needed is toughness.

    The nice thing about the steels used for cutting edges on buckets is that they are not real touchy and welder-unfriendly, and if you follow the recommendations on rod and pre-heat/slow-cool, your repairs can often last a long time . . . well, let's say depending on the operator, some of whom are brutal on the equipment. I have welded up lots of cutting edges of buckets that were brought to me broken in half front-to-back (despite their thickness and toughness). Normally you'd want to replace the whole cutting edge. But when you're doing this in the field while the owner is in a hot rush to get his machine and his operator back in action, you only have time to blow out the cracks or breaks and weld 'em up. A good thing about doing this with cutting edges is that usually you have access to both sides, so you can clean up the back of your root pass and make a nice fill on the other side. Do this with the recommended procedure, shout at the operator a little bit, and your emergency fix often lasts a long time.
    Last edited by old jupiter; 09-23-2015, 10:08 AM.

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  • snoeproe
    replied
    Is this a piece of wear plate that's separating from the bottom of the bucket or is it the cutting edge itself that's coming off?
    If it's wear plate on the bottom of the bucket that's coming off, it may be just worn out. If it's thin, it should be replaced. I've replaced lots of wear plate on the bottom of front end loader and excavator buckets. I replace with AR400 and usually weld with 8018 if possible.
    Last edited by snoeproe; 09-22-2015, 08:15 PM.

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  • Bentrod
    replied
    I have a compact Kubota and while it has been a nice tractor, the bucket is just what it says it is; a general purpose bucket. I am not sure what brand the original post has for a machine, but mine contains no hardened material and has experienced similar issues of breakage to what he describes.

    I just use 7018 for repairs because inevitable it will break again.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    Loader Bucket Repair Question

    I'd say 8018 or 9018 is just fine too. A lot of times, if not most, those loader buckets (especially on the smaller ones) are only welded in a few spots. This makes it easier for the farmer or rancher to cut them free and send them off the great scrap yard in the sky without much fuss. It would makes sense that they would use a high strength rod to attach it.

    And the "x" pattern for hardfacing would be my preferred way to go about hardfacing something like that. I haven't had to do it in quite a while though. Seems like the hardfacing rod I used out off a heck of a lot of smoke too. Anyone else that does this more often run into that?

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  • old jupiter
    replied
    Ryan, I just figure the steelmaker or the rod-maker or (not always) the bucket-maker knows more than I do, and if they call for 8018 or 9018 or whatever, and some degree of pre-heat beyond driving off the moisture and chill, I keep some of that rod on hand and just go with what they tell me.

    I made a possible exception for the bucket-maker because when you phone them with a technical question you don't necessarily get the most knowledgeable or smartest guy in the company. Same thing applies with makers of dump-truck boxes and trailer frames; you'll always get a very confidently asserted opinion, but not always by the guy who really knows.

    Could that "Satellite" rod possibly be Stellite??
    Last edited by old jupiter; 09-19-2015, 11:01 AM.

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  • Portable Welder
    replied
    Old School and MMW got it right, I doubt this bucket is a T1 steel so 7018 rod will be fine with a little preheat to remove the moisture ( Definitely not cherry red )

    You can buy some hard face arc rod from your local welding supply that will be fine and weld it down in a X pattern, Dont use it to fill the gap.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    Loader Bucket Repair Question

    That satellite or whatever sounds like just some sort of hardfacing rod. There are tons of different brands. I've only used stick rod for hardfacing, but it comes is all forms. Pretty much any sort of hardfacing would probably work fine. Your wear plates might not be much more than mild steel after all. I know hardfacing rod does not have much for penetration, but that's by design. It's supposed to have low dilution with the base metal to keep it's "hardness" properties...I'm sure there is a technical term for it more suitable, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

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  • MMW
    replied
    Clean it out best you can, grind off the old weld so you have a clean surface, clamp tight then weld with 7018. It's a bucket, don't over think it.

    Pre heat to cherry red is bad info. If it is cold & damp when you get around to it then slight pre heat to remove moisture, you'll see the moisture leave, doesn't take much. Even that is probably overkill though.

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