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7014 vs 7018 on the farm

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    7014 vs 7018 on the farm

    I completely agree. I like 6011 for the reason, but I don't like it because (using my best southeast-texanese accent...) it ain't nearly as purdy so them there other rods.

    I used 6 or 7 rods of 6011 yesterday on that modification to get into a tight area. On the face, I used 6011 for a root pass and capped it with the mig. Not my best work, but sometimes it just as perfect of a world as we'd want it to be.

    Here in southeast Texas, it's humid. Dadgum humid in fact. Especially here lately. Like I said before, I'm not welding on any bridges or any sort of code work, but even so, when I open that new can of 7018, it'll go straight to the oven when I'm done.

    What about dropping a handful of that desiccant for drying compressed air down inside the can, then taping it off like that? Anyone ever give that a try?

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  • old jupiter
    replied
    Any more, I get 7018 and 9018 in the 10lb. round steel cans with the snap on red plastic lid. I open it at the last minute and quickly pull out all the rod I think I'll need, even if only two sticks, and whip that plastic lid back on the can. Just by itself I think that plastic lid seals fairly well, but when I'm done welding I wrap a turn of electrical tape over the edge of the plastic lid and the metal can, stretching the tape a little as I wrap it. I don't think the coating on the rod will draw any significant moisture past that taped lid. When I get home I do have a rod oven going, but if I've only opened the can a few times (and not open for long!), I might just leave it in the truck and not bother putting it in the oven. Most of what little I do anymore (age 69) is crack and breakage repairs on heavy equipment, so though there's a lot of mild steel there is a variety of carbon and alloy and manganese steel that calls for lo-hy rod. Is farm equipment about like that? Anyway, it's not code work, but I guess my rod stays dry enough because I don't have problems later. I should say however that this area never has the highly humid days that some regions get.

    But on the few occasions that I have picked up a quantity of lo-hy rod that someone has left open for a long time, even after going through the recommended re-drying schedule in the rod oven, I would never use that rod for anything but mild steel, as if it were 7014.

    Unlike a lot of other welders, I love 6010/6011. Most of the cracks I have to fix are not straight but meander around, usually have branching cracks, and tend to run into nearly inaccessible places. So it's VERY hard to make a decent V-groove with a neat root gap and lands, and there's rarely access to the backside of the crack. My best chance of hooking into both sides of a crappy joint like this and getting good penetration when there might be some dirt that I could not get out, is with good old 6011. If the steel allows it, 6011 for the root pass, and if the crack was really hard to get prepped, and the root pass is kind of rough and hard to de-slag, maybe the next pass or two will be 6011, until I have a good base for going with the 7018. I don't understand why everybody doesn't like 6011; it's the most forgiving rod I know of.
    Last edited by old jupiter; 09-06-2015, 09:04 AM.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    7014 vs 7018 on the farm

    Yup. And I have another modification to do to our car hauler today to get ready for drag week. I have to mount another receiver in the back crossmember to pull our little trailer behind the car hauler for the trip there and back. Half of the welds I'm planning on will be out of position on the inside of the channel iron, which is painted and rusted and nasty, but I can't get a grinder up in there. I can, however, get a stick of 6011 up in there to make the welds. The machine I'll be using today will be a lincoln precision TIG 225, which I have never stick welded with. We'll see how it does!

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  • Bentrod
    replied
    I understand completely.

    When you consider that with most farm welds it is almost impossible to get all the rust, paint, primer or dirt from around the weld area, the "which rod is better" discussions almost become a mute point. And the different tensile strengths between 6011 and 7018 probably won't make the difference in which holds and which fails either.

    It is kind of interesting to note that at work we are allowed fillet welds through "weldable primer" though most welders remove it. I think because I have welded through far worse as a farmer, I do not have an issue with the stuff.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    7014 vs 7018 on the farm

    I had a little trailer modification to do yesterday later on in the afternoon. It was something very similar to the types of things that pop up on us at the end of the day when I was growing up on the farm. I really wanted to use 7018 on it, but my can is brand spanking new and I literally needed two sticks. So I used some 6011 instead. It reminded me that I don't really care much for 6011 (just because it doesn't look as nice as 7018 when I'm done), but dang that stuff really burns in, no question there is fusion and a sound a weld...which is kind of the point of it all. Guess that's why it's called a "farmer rod".

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  • mongobird
    replied
    Here is my current (no pun intended) takeaway on the issue:

    7018 rod may be better rod for some of my applications however,
    it tends to absorb moisture, and the powder in it can oxidize, so even if the rod is baked, it may not perform well.

    7014 rod does not absorb moisture as much, and there is some debate as to how the results compare with 7018, but if the rod is not sealed after opening, it may degrade less than 7018.

    There are of course some hybrid solutions:
    -vac pack rod freshly removed from factory wrapped package,
    -make the repack packages small so that less rod is wasted between use,
    -use resealable o-ring rod holders with desiccant.

    I also learned that the coatings are different, and some rod has coatings like cellulose which tend to absorb moisture.

    So thanks for all the thoughts.

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  • mongobird
    replied
    No dig on a Multimatic 200.

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  • Bentrod
    replied
    Does your welder have Hot Start Capability? Can you adjust your welder for Dig Percentages? There is no substitute for good dry rod granted, but Hot Start really helps when I need to do a quick stick welding job at work and the Wire Wire Issue Crib is a long ways off, or the person manning it is out and I just grab some from my emergency stash in my tool box. Adjusting your Inverter to 100% Dig can also lessen the issue with damp rod. (I typically adjust Dig to 60% so I am maxing it out from what I typically run).

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  • mongobird
    replied
    I suppose someone could use a food vacuum sealer. It won't draw moisture out of the rod, but if the rod is transferred quickly from the factory container, to the plastic sealer, it should not have much additional moisture. Once sealed, it should not have moisture, nor much O2 to help things like the material in the 7018 rod to oxidize.

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  • kevin
    replied
    for you fridge guys who use them for a rod oven, i built one, it is the 2 door with freezer on top, first off , i had alot of ss 24 ga sheets laying around, i bought a roll of 6" insulation, cut the insulation to fit all around the inside of the fridge, then cut up the sheet,s to, add another inside to the fridge to hold the insul back, weld them together inside the fridge or screw them in place, sounds like alot of work but its really worth it, the fridge should be able to contain any small fire without starting the shop on fire when left un attended. 50 lb cans of rods always have alot of paper work in side of them, just incase ya forget to take it out.after you do the door and inside with insulation, cut the floor out of the freezer, weld in some steel in place of the floor to support some 50 lb cans, directly under the hole that you just cut, rig up a lamp with a heat bulb, not a spot lite type of bulb but one desgined for heat,, keep it away from the opening about a foot or so, now , when done, keep the low hi rod up in the freezer, heat rises, and the cellouse rod in the lower part of the fridge. the 6010,s and 11,s dont like to be heated alot but need to be kept dry. if ya build this thing correctly, the top will stay about 225 to 250 degrees and the lower part will keep about 70 to 80,keep the cellouse rods near the bottom. ya can put a timer on this, what i do is shut it off late at nite, and turn it on in the morn and the low hi rods are always hot, my 2 cents for a better way, the best way is to buy an over, but for under 50 bucks this is an alternative.

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  • BD1
    replied
    Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
    So what about this...I pop open my new can of 7018 because I need one stinking rod for a repair. Can I take the rest and stuff them into a vacuum sealed bag, like the doohickey in the kitchen I use to package veggies from the garden before I freeze them?

    Or...take the rods I have in my miniature rod oven (that I don't think heats to anywhere near 700 degrees) right now and vacuum pack them with good results?
    If you have a harbor freight near you, buy their rod storage containers. $5.00 and use a 20 % off coupon. http://www.harborfreight.com/welding...per-46477.html
    Click image for larger version

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  • Nathan128
    replied
    7014 vs 7018 on the farm

    A good way to quickly dry out 7018 is just stick it and let it heat up. You will see the moisture steam out for a split second and then weld away. Not for code work. But on the farm works great. And 7014. Is a great farm rod. Perfect mix between 6010 and 7018 in my opinion. I've even done down hand pipeline with it. Both good to have on the farm though.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    7014 vs 7018 on the farm

    So what about this...I pop open my new can of 7018 because I need one stinking rod for a repair. Can I take the rest and stuff them into a vacuum sealed bag, like the doohickey in the kitchen I use to package veggies from the garden before I freeze them?

    Or...take the rods I have in my miniature rod oven (that I don't think heats to anywhere near 700 degrees) right now and vacuum pack them with good results?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bodybagger
    replied
    Vacuum dessication does not work with the flux in 7018 rods precisely because it's formulated to be so hygroscopic. They have to be baked at around 700F or whatever the manufacturer recommends. Once you've welded with good dry rods, you'll see how much better it runs. Now one you've baked them, you can store them in a vacuum.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    7014 vs 7018 on the farm

    What I used to use, before I got a small rod oven, was an old refrigerator with a single light bulb inside. I don't store much rod, so I just used the old freezer part and used the large compartment to store odds and ends. I can't claim to have invented this idea, I know a lot of guys have used this approach in the past. Probably since before I was even born.

    The single bulb inside is, I guess, enough to keep the moisture down. I have also take. Old rods and baked them in the oven for a while to dry them back out. Seemed to work on. Probably not good for welding on a bridge truss though.

    But back on the farm growing up, we pretty much had 6011 and 7018. At the time, I had no earthy idea that 7018 absorbed moisture. But it also wasn't being used to weld on a nuclear reactor.

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