Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How much does oil expand when it gets hot.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Portable Welder
    replied
    Body bagger, those were outside dimensions, I used 1600 gallons, 29.2' x 7.2' x 1' would be pretty close to the inside dimensins which would be approximately 1,558 gallons not including the heating coils that I need to deduct for.

    I went with a 6' x 6' x 1.5' expansion tank that will hold approximately 403 gallons to be on the safe side.

    Duane, this plant has tanks in the 7 plus million gal. range and they have been using the heating coils for 30 plus years, they will be doing the work, I'm just designing and building a reclaim tank.

    Thanks for the help.

    Leave a comment:


  • duaneb55
    replied
    Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
    I never asked what type of oil we will put into the bottom of the tank, more than likely it will be a crude oil since that is what we have on hand.
    You may want to ask. You didn't state whether you have sour or sweet crude and if sour you'll have the matter of H2S if it hasn't been sweetened.



    Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Here is my application, Im building a box that is approximately 30' long x 8, wide x 6' tall, in the bottom of the tank I will have 2" sch. 80 steel coils that instead of steam it will be 350 degrees F oil, the bottom 1' where the coils are will get a steel plate 1' off the floor which will be sealed tight, I will then fill oil into the bottom of the tank which will heat the floor so we can put hardened material into the box to re-liquefy the material.

    The expansion tank will be higher than the floor so the heated oil can sit tight to the top of the false bottom to transfer the heat, I will have 2 pipes going into the expansion tank from each end of this container so I dont get a air pocket.
    There are very legitimate reasons for using steam for heating products. 350F is well into the distillation temperatures of crude that will have long since been flashing off the lighters contained within. And even though crude vapors are heavier than air they will eventually displace the air within the expansion tank(s) creating an undesirable explosion hazard in the process.

    Crude also inherently contains small amounts of water as a result of the extraction and transporting processes and with a boiling point of only 212F if not previously removed will have very undesirable results when coming in contact with 350F oil. Have you ever witnessed a crude oil froth over or worse a boil over?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bodybagger
    replied
    Oil at 350? I'm starting to think there's a secret blend of twelve special herbs and spices.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bodybagger
    replied
    Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Here is my application, Im building a box that is approximately 30' long x 8, wide x 6' tall, in the bottom of the tank I will have 2" sch. 80 steel coils that instead of steam it will be 350 degrees F oil, the bottom 1' where the coils are will get a steel plate 1' off the floor which will be sealed tight, I will then fill oil into the bottom of the tank which will heat the floor so we can put hardened material into the box to re-liquefy the material.

    The expansion tank will be higher than the floor so the heated oil can sit tight to the top of the false bottom to transfer the heat, I will have 2 pipes going into the expansion tank from each end of this container so I dont get a air pocket..

    I never asked what type of oil we will put into the bottom of the tank, more than likely it will be a crude oil since that is what we have on hand.

    Body Bagger, thanks for the information.

    TTPPOOpp thanks for your input as well.
    To start out, the 30x8x1 cavity will house 1800 gallons, not 1600. For each helical 2" pipe, assuming it's 100 feet long, there's another 16 gallons. If there's 6, that brings it to 1900 gallon capacity. If the oil is high in benzene content, you can use benzene as an upper limit for expansion at 0.00069/deg F in which case 1900gal at -20f becomes 2385gal at 350f. Thanks for the kudos, btw.

    Leave a comment:


  • Portable Welder
    replied
    The tanks we are cleaning out are inside **** walls, I decided to go with Bodybaggers info, I have to say when it comes to super technical stuff.
    ( Body Bagger is the man ) I would never want to meet him in a dark alley though.

    Your name creeps me out. Its cool that we have a CSI agent checking up on us.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tryagn5
    replied
    Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
    aametalmaster, Your in the right area.

    Tryagn5, I dont mean to be so vague, I just dont know if the company I'm doing this for would like me giving all the details because its proto type.

    Patent! Patent! I understand, interesting creation. Was curious.

    Leave a comment:


  • aametalmaster
    replied
    Someone overfilled one of our asphalt storage tanks in the middle of the night. The gauge was stuck and it was already full. The clean up crew made lots of steam coils and a crane dropped them into the d ike area to soften up the hard asphalt so a suck truck could clean it up. Worked pretty good except where the asphalt ran out of the groundhog holes in the d ike walls...Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • Portable Welder
    replied
    aametalmaster, Your in the right area.

    Tryagn5, I dont mean to be so vague, I just dont know if the company I'm doing this for would like me giving all the details because its proto type.

    Leave a comment:


  • aametalmaster
    replied
    Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Here is my application, Im building a box that is approximately 30' long x 8, wide x 6' tall, in the bottom of the tank I will have 2" sch. 80 steel coils that instead of steam it will be 350 degrees F oil, the bottom 1' where the coils are will get a steel plate 1' off the floor which will be sealed tight, I will then fill oil into the bottom of the tank which will heat the floor so we can put hardened material into the box to re-liquefy the material.

    I worked in a refinery and lots of our process tanks had steam coils. All heavy oils of course. Asphalt, #6 oil and some of the heavy distillates...Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • Tryagn5
    replied
    Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Here is my application, Im building a box that is approximately 30' long x 8, wide x 6' tall, in the bottom of the tank I will have 2" sch. 80 steel coils that instead of steam it will be 350 degrees F oil, the bottom 1' where the coils are will get a steel plate 1' off the floor which will be sealed tight, I will then fill oil into the bottom of the tank which will heat the floor so we can put hardened material into the box to re-liquefy the material.

    The expansion tank will be higher than the floor so the heated oil can sit tight to the top of the false bottom to transfer the heat, I will have 2 pipes going into the expansion tank from each end of this container so I dont get a air pocket..

    I never asked what type of oil we will put into the bottom of the tank, more than likely it will be a crude oil since that is what we have on hand.

    Body Bagger, thanks for the information.

    TTPPOOpp thanks for your input as well.

    Ok. Way off. Thought u were building a heater with outside oil storage(certain shops wont allow waste tanks in buildin have to be in spill containment).
    I do advise to find the correct oil still. Just the smell of certain oil at 350 degrees will not be liked. Also how are you going to heat the oil..thats a lot of btu's to heat up that much oil!
    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • Tryagn5
    replied
    Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
    I need someone who can tell me how much oil expands, I have to build a tank that will hold approximately 1600 gallons of oil for heating, The oil will then get heated from a temperature of what ever the outside temp is -20 degrees F in worst case scenario all the way up to approximately 350 degrees F.

    So I need to know how big of an expansion chamber to make.
    I hope you are not using waste oil, and heating to 350 degrees, because you will be releasing all of the carbon trapped in the oil and the tank is going to need to be cleaned very often as it will settle to the bottom. I think i know what you are trying to make, most use 3 tanks, storage...ie outside, inside tank to allow oil to be a room tempature, then a much smaller heating tank.
    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • Portable Welder
    replied
    Here is my application, Im building a box that is approximately 30' long x 8, wide x 6' tall, in the bottom of the tank I will have 2" sch. 80 steel coils that instead of steam it will be 350 degrees F oil, the bottom 1' where the coils are will get a steel plate 1' off the floor which will be sealed tight, I will then fill oil into the bottom of the tank which will heat the floor so we can put hardened material into the box to re-liquefy the material.

    The expansion tank will be higher than the floor so the heated oil can sit tight to the top of the false bottom to transfer the heat, I will have 2 pipes going into the expansion tank from each end of this container so I dont get a air pocket..

    I never asked what type of oil we will put into the bottom of the tank, more than likely it will be a crude oil since that is what we have on hand.

    Body Bagger, thanks for the information.

    TTPPOOpp thanks for your input as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bodybagger
    replied
    A good rule of thumb for mineral oil is .00036/deg F

    So 1600 gallons at -20F would become x at 350F:

    (1+[370*0.00036])*1600gal=1813gal.

    This is based on mineral type oils and assumes the tank is not pressurized and all the oil is isothermal... Figuring this out with a pressure differential is non trivial.

    Now, if this was a fuel oil, it would be closer to .00060 and become:
    1+[370*0.0006])*1600gal=1955gal.

    As you can see, the actual properties of the oil can make the difference between catching it all and having a hundred gallons boil over. If you plan on using used motor oil, you should note that it would be a significant explosion hazard at 350F.

    Leave a comment:


  • ttppoopp
    replied
    What you are looking for is the coefficient of thermal expansion for the particular type of Fuel Oil you have. Different oils have different coefficients. Are you talking Diesel, Kerosene, or something else? Figure out what exactly you have, then goolge coefficient of thermal expansion for that substance and go from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Portable Welder
    started a topic How much does oil expand when it gets hot.

    How much does oil expand when it gets hot.

    I need someone who can tell me how much oil expands, I have to build a tank that will hold approximately 1600 gallons of oil for heating, The oil will then get heated from a temperature of what ever the outside temp is -20 degrees F in worst case scenario all the way up to approximately 350 degrees F.

    So I need to know how big of an expansion chamber to make.
Working...
X