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Diversion 180 - IGBT catastrophic failure

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    The new board is 2 weeks out and the supplier is confident this is the repair and even got some guidance direct from the manufacturer on it. So fingers crossed it’s successful.

    I’ve seen that CK machine online but I have not compared specs with other machines. My only experience with an import machine of this origin was with longevity and it was terrible, not the machine but the service.

    Sucks to scrap a machine like yours. Maybe you can find another parts machine for cheap and try to make one that works.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff2013
    replied
    Hi Ryan,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I bought a C-K MT-200. There are opinions on just about everything.... Jody with Welding Tips & Tricks sells the machine on his site. I have watched a lot of his videos and on the ones where he uses the MT-200 he seems pleased. I looked at some machines that were half the price of the MT-200 and was tempted. It's crazy to say; but, I use the machine in a quiet garage and one of the biggest complaints I read about PrimeWeld or Everlast was how loud the fans are, and that they run constantly. That may be great for cooling, just not great if there is no other background noise. I would hate to buy a board new for the Diversion only to find out that there's another problem and then be out the cost of the new board, too. I suppose I'll just to try to sell some of the parts, save others and then scrap what's left. Kind of a waste....

    Good luck with yours.

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    I feel your pain, Jeff. The only machine I ever bought brand new was one of my tig machines and I’m still battling it. My repair attempt has not proved to solve the overall issue, it still does not work. So I’m pretty much at the point of buying a board and hoping it fixes the problem or scrapping the machine and getting something else. Either way, I need this machine or something similar running in its place.

    What did you get to replace yours?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff2013
    replied
    Hi Bart,

    Originally posted by G-ManBart View Post

    Sorry to hear about your machine...that's never fun. The $1,200 quote was from 5 years ago, so that's one difference. Also, welding repair shop prices for boards are elevated. The current price for the board going through sources like Millerserviceparts.com or Miller4less.com looks to be about $1,300.

    I'm not shocked a shop quoted $2,200. Many require a cleaning, install and then load test, which all adds to the cost.

    Unfortunately, going off forum posts about broken welders, other brands don't seem to be any more reliable than Miller, with most being worse. If anything, they maintain parts supply longer than other companies.
    Thanks for your input.

    I know that Miller has a great reputation. I paid a premium for the Diversion 180 and for 211 MIG based on Miller's reputation. With the Diversion it's just disappointing that the machine is pretty much worthless even though it has very little run time. It looks brand new. My main motivation for posting was just the cost of the board... I don't understand why it is so high. I could have the board replaced, or buy a new machine with equal or better specs for less money. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter which one has a better reputation if it doesn't make sense to repair it. I'd rather scrap the one that is less expensive to buy in the first place.

    I'm up an running with a C-K unit now, so I'll stop complaining.

    Thanks,

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • G-ManBart
    replied
    Originally posted by Jeff2013 View Post
    I get it that stuff fails, particularly things with electronics. My real gripe is with the price or the new board. That just seems totally out of line, especially with the price two years ago being discussed as $1,200.

    I guess at this point I'll be parting out anything of value. I already received a replacement machine. Let's just say after the quote I received for a replacement part from a Miller distributor, I did not buy another 180... I went with another manufacturer as I was wrong thinking that the Miller would be a good investment, or at least more reliable. Evidently I was wrong to think that

    I'll keep an eye out for repaired/used boards; but, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
    Sorry to hear about your machine...that's never fun. The $1,200 quote was from 5 years ago, so that's one difference. Also, welding repair shop prices for boards are elevated. The current price for the board going through sources like Millerserviceparts.com or Miller4less.com looks to be about $1,300.

    I'm not shocked a shop quoted $2,200. Many require a cleaning, install and then load test, which all adds to the cost.

    Unfortunately, going off forum posts about broken welders, other brands don't seem to be any more reliable than Miller, with most being worse. If anything, they maintain parts supply longer than other companies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff2013
    replied
    Hi Everyone,

    Well, for what it's worth, I'll share my commets.

    10 days ago I just turned on my Diversion 180 and pedaled down to draw my first arc of the day. Loud bang from within the machine.

    The LWS was kind enough to look at the welder. There were obvious failure areas on the board. The tech told me the new board would cost $2,200 for just the parts. Immediately tried to sell me a new 180 at $2,700.

    Granted, I bought the 180 in 2014 and didn't power it up until mid-2020. I bought the Miller because I thought it would be a good investment. I would estimate that I have no more than about 30 hours of actual light duty welding time on the machine. All in my garage.

    I sent the board to EIC. After inspection I was told that it is separated and warped, and that solder tabs are blown out. In other words, unrepairable.

    I get it that stuff fails, particularly things with electronics. My real gripe is with the price or the new board. That just seems totally out of line, especially with the price two years ago being discussed as $1,200.

    I guess at this point I'll be parting out anything of value. I already received a replacement machine. Let's just say after the quote I received for a replacement part from a Miller distributor, I did not buy another 180... I went with another manufacturer as I was wrong thinking that the Miller would be a good investment, or at least more reliable. Evidently I was wrong to think that

    I'll keep an eye out for repaired/used boards; but, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    My little maxstar does ok on 115v. I can even link my two Honda 2000s together and weld with 3/32 7018.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    In my mind, it doesn't have the arc quality of a "real" machine, but I find it quite acceptable for the portability. Obviously limited on 120v, but it will weld. Really nice if you have 230 power available. Price has gone up--I think I bought mine from Cyberweld for somewhere around $350 or just a bit less; I think they are around $375 now. There is also a 230-volt-only version, with higher output, but the defeats the purpose of "go weld anywhere".
    Last edited by Aeronca41; 07-28-2019, 06:15 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    Some of the guys at work make fun of me and flashlight that still has a bulb in it. Everything is LED....except my flashlight. Sure it’s bigger and heavier and doesn’t work as well and uses up batteries faster, but it still works. I had a brand new one with the fancy led thing (basically the “upgraded” version of my old one) and I let a crew use it during hurricane Harvey flood evacuations, of course it got wet, but we’re firemen, we tend to use water on stuff. Anyway, light never worked again. Pelican did replace it for free and all, but this old one keeps on choochin.

    I’m going to take a look at that Hobart stickmate. Sounds handy to have around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    It was a calculated risk. The wonders of a Dynasty could never have been possible without the technology. You can do things engineering-wise with high power FETs and IGBTs controlled by computer chips that were just impossible before. When the new technology components first come out, the reliability is often not as good as it will be when the manufacturers develop more knowledge, skill, and better technique, based on analysis of failures in the field. I can remember when transistors first came out, and some had some pretty miserable failure rates. Today, transistor reliability is right up there with rocks and dirt. FETs were originally pretty iffy gadgets, but now they're very reliable. IGBTs have also shown reliability improvement over time, as well as coming down in cost. Took Miller a long time to determine it was finally time to "IGBT-ize" the Thunderbolt--I suspect both cost and reliability took until the relatively recent past to make it reasonable. I bought one of those little Hobart equivalents of the new Thunderbolt when they first came out-- the new Stickmate 160i---you can carry your welder in one hand and your lunch box in the other, and it's balanced, and about the same size! I haven't tried running any 6010 with it (they advertise it as OK running 6010 as long as it isn't open root), but it does just fine on 6011 and 7018. Nice little machine, and you can weld anywhere, any time, 120/240. Miller puts blue paint on it and charges more $. The beauty of technology--I think it weighs something like 12 or 15 pounds. It will never be as reliable as an old transformer machine, but for the price and convenience I felt it was worth a shot. Not sorry I bought it.

    Tinfoil hats sound good, but those rays will go through feet of concrete, so I don't think the hat helps much.

    Unintended consequences make me think of what would happen if an enemy ever subjected us to an EMP. I keep some old incandescent flashlights--I would expect every LED to fried.

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    That’s wild. Maybe there is something to those tin foil hats some folks wear.

    So with the advancements in technology, the newer bits are more sensitive to this stuff for some reason? That kind of sucks. Law of unforeseen consequences or was this a calculated risk? A trade off for higher efficiency and easier production I suppose.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Nope, sunscreen won't help. And Helga is far too robust to worry about them! She would have nothing to do with any of those wimpy solid state circuits.

    Cosmic rays are very real, and they can do a number on solid state electronics, especially those of the high impedance variety like IGBTs. While some radiation comes from peak sunspot cycles, most cosmic rays that impact equipment come from outside our solar system--they are the true aliens. If you ever get to visit an astrophysics lab,(probably not likely) ask if they have a cosmic ray detector. There is one in the Exploratorium in San Francisco that I have sat in front of for more than half an hour to see one hit. (I know, that is a true admission of geekness.) They are pretty intense, and go right through steel and concrete buildings, people....and electronic stuff. If they happen to hit just the right place in a solid state junction they might cause an instant failure in some components, but it is more likely they will wound it, and sometime later something else (high temp, power line surge, etc.) will take out the part. However, they aren't likely to hit the same component more than once--just too scarce. Most are dealt with as they hit molecules of the atmosphere and get broken up. Some of the early solid state memory chips were particularly prone to damage from them, and showed poor reliability as a result. Lots of improvements in technology since them.

    https://www.britannica.com/science/cosmic-ray

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    Cosmic rays? Sunspots? Are you guys pulling my leg? Are you tryin to tell me that I need to put sun screen on my Helga?

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post

    All i know is TJ Max is a local store for me...Bob
    ...and maybe that's all we need to know for now!

    Leave a comment:


  • aametalmaster
    replied
    Originally posted by Helios View Post

    Pretty hard to make heads or tails out of that dog's breakfast...
    All i know is TJ Max is a local store for me...Bob

    Leave a comment:

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