Spray Arc with the MM210

[HAWK]

A-,

My mistake. That was a late night post.

H-

[ASKANDY]

Originally posted by HAWK
JWELD,

The Vintage is no longer a current offering for Miller. It is a pulsed GMAW all in one power source producing 200 amps at 60 percent and capable of welding 1/2" steel in a single pass.
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The Vintage was NOT a pulse machine. It was the bigger brother to the MM210 with the same type of Tapped transformer control. It never had the provisions to do pulse mig as that would need a solid state or inverter unit. The Vintage is old school tranformer/rectifier. A great machine....We just have too many units in or near that product size and with the new solid state digital units like the 251, sales of the Vintage have been fair at best.

Thanks.
Andy

[cope]

Originally posted by HAWK
Cope,


Thanks! I wonder why Miller discontinued this machine? They also ditched the 252 Tapped Slope machine. There are 2 great GMAW machines gone from the product line.

I guess something always has to be moved aside in the name of progress but why the Venture?

I know where there may be a new Vintage for $1419.00. Roberts Oxygen has had one listed on their website for awhile.

http://www.robertsoxygen.com/htmlfiles/saleitems2.html

If my PowCon died that's the first machine I would try to find. Plenty of MM251s around.

[HAWK]

Cope,


Thanks! I wonder why Miller discontinued this machine? They also ditched the 252 Tapped Slope machine. There are 2 great GMAW machines gone from the product line.

[cope]

Originally posted by HAWK
JWELD,

The Vintage is no longer a current offering for Miller. It is a pulsed GMAW all in one power source producing 200 amps at 60 percent and capable of welding 1/2" steel in a single pass. Yes, it will do spray arc just fine. I believe I would choose the 98% argon / 2% oxygen and that way you will have it if you decide to try a gas- shielded stainless wire. The Vintage will probably spray with 92% argon / 8% ccarbon dioxide, but the 98/2 will be hotter and a more versatile choice. My guess is your have access to roughly 28-30 volts with the Vintage power source.

Hawk forgot to mention that it puts out 250 amps @40% Duty Cycle; not too shabby!

[HAWK]

JWELD,

The Vintage is no longer a current offering for Miller. It is a pulsed GMAW all in one power source producing 200 amps at 60 percent and capable of welding 1/2" steel in a single pass. Yes, it will do spray arc just fine. I believe I would choose the 98% argon / 2% oxygen and that way you will have it if you decide to try a gas- shielded stainless wire. The Vintage will probably spray with 92% argon / 8% ccarbon dioxide, but the 98/2 will be hotter and a more versatile choice. My guess is your have access to roughly 28-30 volts with the Vintage power source.

Does my Vintage put out enough volts for a good spray??

[cope]

Originally posted by HAWK
pjseaman,

No. The MM210 maximum voltage output is arund 25 volts. It does not have enough voltage behind it to spray with 75/25. Also the 75/25 Ar/CO2 mix is not designed for spray. Add another 5% to 10% argon and it will be more suited to spray transfer. I have sprayed with 75/25, but your really must have the higher CV output to do it. It will start into the spray mode around 36-38 volts. One of the hotter gases is your best bet.

Hawk-bang on. I tried to achieve spray using C25 in my PowCon and got really close but no cigar. I believe it will do spray at the top end but the Tweco #1 gun isn't going to hold up to the heat. I bought some 90/10 for spray and the gun will like it much better. I have toyed with the idea of switching to a Tweco #2 but I have lots of consumables; consumables for the #2 aren't as cheap or as easy to find on a Saturday. I will eventually make the change.

[shane7207]

thanks hawk and all others who replied to this post. as soon as i get a bottle of gas i'll give the spray arc method a try. i'll let you know how it goes. this forum is never short on good advice. once again, thanks for the help.

[Paul Seaman]

Thanks all solid info I have done spray in school but with a lot more machine Invision 354mp Argon and Helium mix not sure what mix. I will be switching to a little hotter gas after this tank, it'll be nice to be able to push the mm210 if I need to, Don't do much heavy work mostly mild tube and Al tube and plate.

[Danny]

final example.

[Danny]

example #2

[Danny]

Originally posted by HAWK
Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Shane will be happy to hear that. Do you have any pictures of sprayed beads to post?

Hawk, here are a few example pictures of spray transfer welds with a MM 210.

[Danny]

Re: Dan, what settings

Originally posted by Paul
What settings on your MM251 were you using to spray weld on the .250" stock ?

Thanks
Paul

Paul, i wish i had a MM 251, I was just test driving one yseterday for a little bit. Anyway, to spray arc 1/4" steel with an .035 E70S-6 you need at least 400 to 420 IPM of wire- about 200 to 210 amps. The voltage requirement is going to depend on the spray gas mix that you choose to use. 98/2oxy will produce spray in the above IPM range at a load voltage of 24 to 25 volts. Now, the argon/co2 gas mixes are higher energy mixes so they require more voltage to produce a stable spray transfer- the more CO2 in the mix the higher the voltage.

Paul, I can t give you an exact answer to your question because I was just playing with machine, and was paying more attention to the arc quality then my actual weld results. About the only help that I can supply for now is with the wire speed meter reading about 420 , i had to set the voltage between 26 and 27 to produce a good spray with 90/10. Sorry i can t help more then this.

[KS2K]

Dan, what settings

What settings on your MM251 were you using to spray weld on the .250" stock ?

Thanks
Paul