8VS Suitcase and Aluminum..

[Grampa]

Well went and did it I am ordering out a Bobcat 225 and a 8vs suitcase..ordered the 10' gun (C-3010 Roughneck)with conversion kit 202 895

Has anyone tried Aluminum with this combo??

I decided that I am going to have to bite the bullet and do some serious upgrade around here.....the TIG will have to hold up a bit as I am either going with the maxstar or dynasty and drive it off of the panel of the bobcat..

Decided to go this way as I have used the Bobcat and it works just fine...Guess us ole guys just like what we know..


Thanks Guys..hope I contribute a little bit..

Grampa

[Paul Seaman]

Grampa never be ashamed of liking the known, but don't quit learning the new tricks. Hawk and company would be ashamed of me since I mig everything, but have not achieved any skill worth building on in tig yet. Key word yet, I will get it in time but right now mig it all.

Bobcat is a very nice choice.

[Grampa]

new tricks

well I have thought and thought and from what Hawk has posted my rig will be similar to his..I think he has the trailblazer..I am not planning on pipelining or construction again but it will be nice to be able to go over to the neighbors if they want their tractor fixed..

In any case tht Bobcat will be used to drive my shop..and once it is in then the TIG will be added..Hope the Suitcase will run the Aluminum wire..??

thanks
Grampa

[HAWK]

Grampa,

Here's my 2 cents. The Bobcat is a nice machine. The 8VS is a good feeder for the Bobcat, but I don't think you'll have much luck running aluminum with a voltage sensing feeder. Even worse the aluminum wire is very soft in comparison to steel and won't feed well if at all. You might have some luck with 3/64" AL in 5356 (it is stiffer than 4043) with a 6' to 10' mig gun and keep it straight.

The 8VS is best suited to flux cored wire and higher amperage bare wire pushing globular transfer and spray arc modes. It will short arc okay, but pales in comparison to a true CV feeder like the 8RC. The Trailblazer has the 14 pin connector with the true CV output. There are a number of reasons to pick the Trailblazer over the Bobcat and they all have a common thread: Accessories.

If you are looking to do aluminum from an engine drive check out the Trailblazer. Here is why? Yes, it will cost you nearly a $1000 more than the Bobcat 225. However, the spoolgun adapter to use the 30A gun with the Bobcat is nearly $900. If you put that $900 on the Trailbazer and another $200 for the WC24 controller to run the spoolgun you have invested the same amount of money and gotten a whole lot more machine for it. I did not factor in the $900 for the spoolgun because you will have to buy it either way.

Here is something else to think about. I quit running my Dynasty from my Trailblazer (10KW surge and 9.5KW constant) because it would falter around 140 amps and up, especially on AC. I called Miller and this is a known fact. Therefore, my Dynasty stays in the shop and I use a high frequency stabilizer box for AC/DC tig on the Trailblazer.

I am speaking from personal experience. I owned a Bobcat 225NT and these are a few of the reasons I sold and went with the Trailblazer. The Bobcat is a fine machine, but there are differences. Again as I said earlier: just my 2 cents.

[Grampa]

well that helps

Hawk,
I do like to have the right stuff..and sounds like the trailblazer would be the way to go..I decided to go to the engine driven rig as it will cost me 3000 to 4000 to put in a new electric service at the shop to pull my elding gear..got lite bulbs and can do the drill motor is about all as it stands..So get the engine drive and have the portablity as well..

Good thoughts on the trailblazer..I always try to buy my equipment with a thought to the future..Have the capacity and options available as I have found it cheaper in the long run to start ou ton the right foot... Since I am used to real industrial stuff I will just go that way..

I will look inot another alternative for the TIG setup and check out the maxstar 150 or another alternative...

Just do something do not stay stuck..:>)

Grampa

[H80N]

Trailblazer vs Bobcat

Grampa
You would do well to take the time to read previous posts regarding the relative merits of each machine... IF you want a machine that will do EVERYTHING Well.. take the time and look at the comparison chart of engine drives in the miller catalog.. I spent months studying machines made by all of the makers.. and their capabilities... and even more time here on this forum asking questions..... for me it was a large investment and required careful thought... I have been welding for a long time but was brand new to mobile welding... I was lucky enough to be able to draw on the experience, knowledge and patience of people like HAWK and others..
THE RESULT?..... well there is a TRAILBLAZER 301G with accessories parked on the back of my truck... and I could not be happier..
your needs may be different.. but if you plan on putting all of the goodies on a Bobcat... I think that might be false economy.. as it will cost more in the long run with a less satisfactory result...
Like I said.. take the time to read previous posts as all of this has been covered in depth before.. no need for me to say it again.. and take the time to look at that comparison chart.. it says a lot..
It is your Dime.......
Just one guy's opinion
Thanks
Heiti

BTW... both machines look similar if laid side by side... and a Fiero looks a bit like a Ferrari... but........
or maybe...... a chevy may share the same platform with a cadillac ... both are good cars... but there is a difference.....

[Grampa]

its a Trail Blazer

Heiti,

No machine does everything real well..However if I start with the right basic power source I think I can build around it and get to good enough.;>).My decision to go to engine drive is based on the facts of life at this place..Have to spend a wad of cash to get a new electrical service installed for a shop..so why not take the cash and get an engine drive..having the generator will be nice when the lites go out..Gramma will like that one..

As they say ask the guy who uses one...and take time and get it right..grinn..

Yup I am gonna change the order and get the trailblazer...Just a good example of how things work out..When I bought the Little Red Box I got it from the local welding store..not the big box store..when I wanted to upgrade it was no problem as all the pieces were there..

I am still not sure on the TIG machine yet but is nice to know I can run one with the drive I am getting..probably invest in the Maxstar 150..for educational purposes..and it should have enough to weld up to 3/16 which is about all anyone runs into on automotive..

My experience runs to Farm and Construction work..working in a nice clean well lighted and DRY!!! shop is a whole new deal for me..

I am looking at wire feeder options..probably one of the suitcase models..the 8rc seems like a good choice..I do want to run the small spools of wire as I do change wire often and now none of the jobs are very big..any thoughts on a specific gun??

What size wire are you running..?? or do you recommend for general welding in this size of machine..

I did try the 20 gauge wire we discussed and liked it..it does come in the 2 lb spools so you are not out a whole lot to try it yourself..it does seem to make sheet metal go a lot easier..as compared to solid wire..

Spool gun?? yup gonna need one of those..Lot of aluminum boats around here..

When I actually get around to the TIG setup will let you know..From what I see there is one that runs on the trailblazer..have to do some more digging on that one..

Thanks

Grampa.

BTW..on wiring..match the wire size to the breaker..20 amp/#12 wire..30 amp/#10 wire..40/50 amp/#8wire...60 amp/#6wire...Been there done that one..If some guy goes off to the big box store and says welder they get all flustrated down there..Say kitchen range outlet and they hand you the stuff..Hope these guys have room in their electric panels for addtional circuits..lots of residential panels I have found to be full..Sooo need to install sub panels to accommodate shop wiring..that is why we need electricians and another reason for me to buy an engine drive unit..;>)

[H80N]

Grampa
like I said.. take your time and STUDY before you jump.. and as far as a machine that does everything well.. the trailblazer comes as close as any engine drive on the market (head and shoulders above any i could find)......and.. as far as a spoolgun goes.. I run a 30A... But TIG aluminum boats in the shop... most of them are so thin that the spoolgun would blast right through and make a mess... like I said..SLOW DOWN!!!... take your time.. consider what you really want to do with a machine and accessories.. and match the right tool to the job at hand... like I said there is a lot of info in previous posts.. little bit of time spent reading and understanding may save a whole truckload of heartache later....
heck... it is your dime.. and free advice is worth what you pay for it.....
Heiti

BTW wire size to breaker to amps as you said.. is TOO Simplistic.. as you are not taking into account the length of wire run..or the nature of the load... better to have people read Solid.. SAFE advice in the Manual.. for their machine... than to give generalities that may prove dangerous... would hate to hear of someone who had their house or shop burn down (or worse) because they took to heart some ill considered advice.....

[Grampa]

Ok ok

Heiti,
Ok..not a problem..From all that I read study and all the Trailblazer seems to be the best for my application..and since there are lots of accessories for it I believe it will suit my needs just fine..

On the aluminum boat deal..boats around here tend to be made from 1/4" 6061 plate with big block chevs and fords..and big jet pumps..Bit different than the small aluminum lake boat deal..Quite a bit of Stainless as well..the stainless we use is the 316 variety..304 is nice for kitchen hoods..ok for freshwater boats..

So I think it is best for me to go the Trailblazer route with a suitcase feeder..for the basics...

Aluminum to be sorted out later..Every thing I see says a fellow needs 2..one for the lite thin stuff and one for the thicker stuff..Every welder has its size range..and material range..that is what makes this hard is picking the just right machine,,

Originally I was thinking of all small work but it is not that much more to get the added capability..Portable is great..

As far as the equipment choices all the shops that i have ever been in have not one but several welders to fill the specific needs of that shop...

On the electrical..been there done that..and you are right these guys need to read the manual..and hire an electrician if they are not sure..

Thanks

Grampa

[H80N]

Grampa
been there done that.. would not help anyone that took ill considered advice and got hurt... please see the new thread on Welder Wiring Safety....
Thanks
Heiti

[H80N]

Trailblazer TIG

Grampa
have used my Trailblazer for DC tig with the addition of a 200amp aircooled torch and RCCS-14 fingertip controller... and it is a pretty darned good machine for the stuff that I have done so far... as far as AC Tig on aluminum.. the only reason I have not tried that yet is that I need to buy the HF251 high freq box.. but will let you know when I do... that machine does pretty well... like I said take a look at the comparison chart in the Miller catalog.. they did not lie.... But the Trailblazer has a bottom end for AC tig of 35amps which could be problematic on some of the thinner stuff ... maybe sometime I will buy a Dynasty but it is a ways down the list
.. for doing boats it is just as easy for the owner to pull the trailer into my yard as it is for me to go and see them.. and the shop machines have the foot control that is sometimes more convenient to use.
As far as the Trailblazer goes am very happy with it.. It will do all processes x-ray quality while none of it's competition even comes close...
Thanks
Heiti

PS am sure that there are others out there that have much more experience with tigwelding on the Trailblazer, HAWK among them.. their input would help (this ps was added in edit)

[Grampa]

Trailblazer

Heiti,
I know several prople who have the engine driven machines and most of them would let you have anything else in the shop..but not the engine driven one..why..engine driven welders are just so darn useful..allow you to do so much..

As far as the amp deal is concerned I think we can look through the Miller catalogue and find us something that will work down on the low end so we can weld really thin stuff..

One of those 80/20 deals..the Trailblazer does 80% of everything that gets walked through the shop door..If it is really thin or really really thick..then we need to look at something else..and how many times is that gonna happen..??

I think you will really appreciate the engine driven machine when some guy calls to fix his boat and it turns ou tthe boat is 40' and needs a semi to move, so now you go to him..

Now it is a matter of getting one here and accumulating the additional pieces that I will need..

I did stop by the school today and since I am a graduate there I can go in and take all the nite classes I want..stick,mig,tig, sheet metal, all of it..soooo I am gonna go dust the rust off..griinnn..

Thanks

Grampa

[HAWK]

H80N and Grampa,

I have a Trailblazer in my truck bed and use it for stick, mig, flux core, spoolgun with aluminum, AC/DC tig, carbon arc gouging, powering my plasma and work tools, etc. It does all of these processes equally well. I also have a Dynasty in my shop. Both have their place.

[HAWK]

Grampa,

In response to really thick or thin:

A coke can rim is roughly .025". The Trailblazer will easily tig aluminum twice as thick as a coke can rim. That is thin by field welding standards. I have run spary arc with my 12RC suitcase and welded 1.5" x 3" flat stock. I also run glob transfer with bare wire on this stock thickness. Sure I make several passes, but will do so with any machine. I run 1/4" carbon rods regularly gouging enough metal in a single pass for most jobs. Two passes will really cut a groove!

My questions is this: What are you going to be field or shop welding that requires a machine to go above or below these parameters? I have invested considerable funds into my Trailblazer with all the accessories to "do it all" and so far have been able to. FYI: The machine is rated at 300 amps overall and 225 amps for AC. Don't take those numbers to the bank. Have your dealer load bank your machine. Mine runs well above the published numbers. I understand most all do.

I think Dynasty is a great machine and would not part with it. It will do all kinds of tricks. However, these procedures are not usually required in the field. I cannot recall one time I had to go to the shop and get my Dynasty because the Trailblazer would not do it. Yes, there are times I take my Dynasty into a plant for convenience sake. I hate cranking the Trailblazer in the rain. I would rather carry my Dynasty inside and wire into a 3 phase box if possible.

[Grampa]

There is the nut of it!!

Hawk,
This gets to the nut of the deal

I cannot imagine getting involved with anything that the Trailblazer would not or could not do..

When I realized the expense of installing a new electrical service in my home to run my shop I realized I would be better off getting engine driven equipment..See the new thread on wiring safety..The plus side is that I have portablity the minus is that it makes noise..Oh well cannot have it all..

I mean I can buy a Trailblazer for about 3200 or so..Sparky wants 4000-5000 not to mention the backhoe guy for the trench and wire from the street to my shop for a new service and then all I have is a hole in my checkbook and no welder..so get the engine driven machine..have the welder I need and forget Sparky..;>)


Take the rest and get a suitcase..I will get the #8 suitcase as it has all the capacity I need..I run a lot of the small spools of wire in what I do..keep some 308 stainless wire on hand..some 20 gauge wire..and a spool of regular wire....anyway put in the correct wire for the task.. I will eventually get the tig kit..and plasma cutter.. I will be checking out options on the spool gun as my use is rather lite..maybe there is something besides the 30A..

I did go see the guys at the welding school and they told me come on down and as they have about everything under the sun I get to practice and blow the rust off..I do need to make a gun selection for the suitcase and tha tis a pick em up smell em taste em deal to get the one that suits my hand...

I do believe I am making the correct choices for me in my situation..If I am correct in this we will both have a sort of plug and play outfit that will do just about anything that comes our way and if we cannot do it with what we have just maybe we do not want that job anyway..;>)

Have you tried the 20 gauge wire..?? Cool stuff on sheet metal..anyway I like it..will use it on auto body stuff and things like that..

BTW..you are using your dynasty exactly like I used my little wire feeder.for those small repair jobs when one does not want to or need to drag leads and all that to do a small job..


Thanks for your input Hawk..appreciate your time here

Grampa