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No Penetration Welding Flush Butt with Millermatic 211

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  • No Penetration Welding Flush Butt with Millermatic 211

    I'm a beginner and I'm doing something wrong. I'm trying to flush butt weld two pieces of 3/16 inch steel and I can't get any penetration. I'm running .030 ER70S-6 solid wire and 75/25 gas on 230V. When using the 'matic's auto setting, I get that nice "bacon sizzling" sound, but the bead just runs on the surface and is high (like a mountain range). In manual mode at 5/75 (which is what the chart says I should be using), I get the same results. I tried upping the juice and slowing the wire, running at 6/60 and still got no improvement. I had problems running at 7/60; the sizzling sound turned into a bit of popping. At 7/70 I was able to push a puddle, but still no penetration. What am I doing wrong? How do I up the heat while not piling on tons of wire?

    Click image for larger version

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    Here's the 7/70 weld. I bent it apart slightly to reveal the total-lack-of-penetration.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by mbmast; 06-02-2015, 02:38 PM. Reason: clarity
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Millermatic 211

  • #2
    Either bevel the part on both sides or leave a small gap between them...Bob
    Bob Wright

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes.... that's a beginner for you. If there's no way to get any real penetration with the MIG at this point, given that the butt joints are flush, should I go over any existing welds with my oxy/acetylene rig? That'll at least get some heat in there with no added material.
      --------------------------------------------------------------
      Millermatic 211

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
        Either bevel the part on both sides or leave a small gap between them...Bob
        as Bob has stated... you need to do some joint prep..

        I would further suggest that you grind the mill scale off of the metal at the area you are going to weld..

        You might also watch Jody's MIG Basics video series.. starting with this one..

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KrwmK7df-s

        .

        *******************************************
        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

        My Blue Stuff:
        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200DX
        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
        Millermatic 200

        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

        Comment


        • #5
          By the sounds of your post I would guess you have either a 180 or 211, in which case both of these machines start to get a bit of a harsh arc in the upper voltage range. This is probably the audible change you are hearing. As the other guys have said, there is no way around it, you must give some space for the weld to lay to do a butt weld properly. Good luck, keep practicing and doing research.

          Also, those settings on the door chart are rough guidelines. They are by no means "the correct" settings for the stated material. Joint prep, joint style, weld position, stick out, and many other factors come into play to properly adjust the welder.

          With your current work piece, I would not waste any time with the oxy rig, just grind your beads off, seperate the parts, do proper joint prep and try again.
          Last edited by Cgotto6; 06-02-2015, 07:12 PM.

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          • #6
            These guys can advise you better than me cause I'm not a migger yet. But turn your wire speed up to increase amps not down. Also share what equipment you are using it will give those trying to help you more to work with.---Meltedmetal
            ---Meltedmetal

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            • #7
              "Penetration" is achieved through metal prep (grinding).

              Grind a bevel and leave a gap and you're all set (chart included).
              Note: double "V" is less grinding and less weld metal than single "V".
              (1/2 the weld metal)

              Click image for larger version

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              Wire Feed Speed - adjusts amperage: the higher the speed, the more amps to burn the wire off.

              Volts - adjusts the weld bead profile: more volts = wider, flatter bead profile.

              They have to work in a balance to each other for a good weld bead profile with proper amperage.
              Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 06-03-2015, 12:01 PM.
              "Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." ~George Bernard Shaw~

              Airco 300 Heliwelder
              Dialarc 250 AC/DC
              ESAB 161
              Invertec v250 and v300 Pro
              SA200
              Spectrum 700 plasma
              MM210
              Miller HF-15-1
              Dirty ugly tools - perfect

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              • #8
                Ok, the message is pretty clear. I failed in the joint prep. That God I don't build airplanes! I mentioned in the title of my post that I'm using the Millermatic 211. I'll add that to my signature as well. Thanks everyone for contributing.
                --------------------------------------------------------------
                Millermatic 211

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mbmast View Post
                  Ok, the message is pretty clear. I failed in the joint prep. That God I don't build airplanes! I mentioned in the title of my post that I'm using the Millermatic 211. I'll add that to my signature as well. Thanks everyone for contributing.
                  Not to worry...

                  All part of the learning process..

                  We all had to start somewhere..
                  .

                  *******************************************
                  The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                  “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                  Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                  My Blue Stuff:
                  Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                  Dynasty 200DX
                  Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                  Millermatic 200

                  TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...-was-new/page3


                    That's one heck of a starter unit for sure. If you have problems with getting a good feed with it take a look at my post in the other thread about the 211. After I did my fix I found my welds looked night and day better. Like the others said a bevel grind in the edge is what you need along with a grind across both faces of metal you are welding will solve that one.

                    Dave
                    Last edited by DATEC; 06-03-2015, 07:02 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Check for a good ground area too. A upgraded brass ground will help too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is a 3/16 plate with similar machine and 030. I left a little boog in the back so you can see there was a gap. This is welded from 1 side, the back is the backside.
                        Attached Files

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