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old miller dynasty 200. found the problems, trouble finding the parts!

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  • old miller dynasty 200. found the problems, trouble finding the parts!

    hello everyone, i bought a used (bad idea) miller dynasty 200 a month or so ago.

    i was welding 1/8 aluminum one night when i heard a nice fizzle and lots of smoke. i opened up the machine to see that first it was made in 2005, and second, the large can aluminum electrolytic capacitors have crapped the bed. literately dropping its liquid contents on the board. i took the boards off the machine to find it also has 4 burnt resistors.

    i have found the correct part numbers for both of these pieces but not having much luck finding a place to purchase them.

    large can aluminum electrolytic capacitor:
    ECEP2GP152HA

    now with the resistor, i do not understand which code to use for the 3 digit "packaging" end code. there are, "lead(pb)-free" and "tin/lead"
    Resistor:
    CPF3150K00FK_ _ _

    here are the pdf. pages i found with this information

    panasonic capacitor:
    http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsh...EP2HP152HA.pdf

    dale resistor:
    http://www.vishay.com/docs/31021/cpf.pdf

    thank you for any help!

    ryan
    Last edited by spriggan; 05-25-2015, 10:14 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by spriggan View Post
    hello everyone, i bought a used (bad idea) miller dynasty 200 a month or so ago.

    i was welding 1/8 aluminum one night when i heard a nice fizzle and lots of smoke. i opened up the machine to see that first it was made in 2005, and second, the large can aluminum electrolytic capacitors have crapped the bed. literately dropping its liquid contents on the board. i took the boards off the machine to find it also has 4 burnt resistors.

    i have found the correct part numbers for both of these pieces but not having much luck finding a place to purchase them.

    large can aluminum electrolytic capacitor:
    ECEP2GP152HA

    now with the resistor, i do not understand which code to use for the 3 digit "packaging" end code
    Resistor:
    CPF3150K00FK_ _ _

    here are the pdf. pages i found with this information

    panasonic capacitor:
    http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsh...EP2HP152HA.pdf

    dale resistor:
    http://www.vishay.com/docs/31021/cpf.pdf

    thank you for any help!

    ryan
    Have a feeling that the visible failures that you have observed are probably a result of another failure upstream...

    If you could post your serial number... hopefully.."Cruizer" can give you more advice...

    For many of the parts try these guys

    http://miller4less.com/

    after you have looked up the numbers in the Miller parts book.. found here..

    http://www.millerwelds.com/service/ownersmanuals.php
    Last edited by H80N; 05-25-2015, 10:04 AM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

    Comment


    • #3
      S# LF313233

      the large capacitors have a lifespan of 3000hours, over 10 years i think they reached that mark.

      im hoping its only visible failures!

      i'm thinking that these pieces can only be bought in large quantities or are now obsolete and discontinued

      started with looking in the miller owners manual. its not as detailed as i would like it to be. instead of being able to replace whats on the interconnecting board it has the interconnecting board as a part#
      Last edited by spriggan; 05-25-2015, 10:58 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by spriggan View Post
        S# LF313233

        the large capacitors have a lifespan of 3000hours, over 10 years i think they reached that mark.

        im hoping its only visible failures!

        i'm thinking that these pieces can only be bought in large quantities or are now obsolete and discontinued

        started with looking in the miller owners manual. its not as detailed as i would like it to be. instead of being able to replace whats on the interconnecting board it has the interconnecting board as a part#
        If "Cruizer" checks in on this thread...

        pay attention to his observations..

        He knows these machines inside out and backwards...

        And has been our resident Super Service Tech for many years...

        Hope he is feeling well enough... he has had some health issues...
        .

        *******************************************
        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

        My Blue Stuff:
        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200DX
        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
        Millermatic 200

        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

        Comment


        • #5
          here are some pictures just cause

          the two large capacitors:



          the liquid they spilled:



          the 4 resistors:


          the burnt backside of those resistors:

          Comment


          • #6
            been searching and getting closer to finding these parts...

            does anyone know what solder miller uses for their boards?

            lead free or tin/lead?

            i've been looking around and haven't been able to find this answer.

            thank you
            ryan

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by spriggan View Post
              been searching and getting closer to finding these parts...

              does anyone know what solder miller uses for their boards?

              lead free or tin/lead?

              i've been looking around and haven't been able to find this answer.

              thank you
              ryan
              My first guess and first choice for an electronic repair solder would be

              "Kester 60/40 Rosin Core" ...

              (60% Tin 40% Lead)
              Last edited by H80N; 05-27-2015, 10:36 AM.
              .

              *******************************************
              The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

              Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

              My Blue Stuff:
              Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
              Dynasty 200DX
              Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
              Millermatic 200

              TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by H80N View Post
                My first guess and first choice for an electronic repair solder would be

                "Kester 60/40 Rosin Core" ...

                (60% Tin 40% Lead)

                thank you that is correct, just called miller to verify…sourcing part numbers now...

                found both on mouser.com, very helpful service


                the capacitor #
                661-EKMH401T152MB80T

                resistor #
                71-CPF3150K00FKR36

                will be updating when they arrive

                edit: mouser is out of the resistors, trying to find them at http://www.questcomp.com/
                Last edited by spriggan; 05-27-2015, 11:22 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by spriggan View Post
                  the large can aluminum electrolytic capacitors have crapped the bed. literately dropping its liquid contents on the board. i took the boards off the machine to find it also has 4 burnt resistors.

                  large can aluminum electrolytic capacitor:
                  ECEP2GP152HA

                  now with the resistor, i do not understand which code to use for the 3 digit "packaging" end code. there are, "lead(pb)-free" and "tin/lead"
                  Resistor:
                  CPF3150K00FK_ _ _


                  ryan
                  The capacitors are used for holding the DC bus in pulse width modulation
                  power converters. The resistors have a value of 150K and looking at the trace paths
                  on the board it looks like an attempt to use lower power rated components to meet
                  a higher power rating. If they are for bleeding the caps, maybe. I wonder if you could
                  have done better with a selection here when I see the heat stress areas caused by
                  the resistors. BTW, I have designed and built converters.

                  You will probably find that the lead free parts cost more.
                  Last edited by bluesky; 06-04-2015, 07:56 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bluesky View Post
                    The capacitors are DC used for holding the DC bus in pulse width modulation
                    power converters. The resistors have a value of 150K and looking at the trace paths
                    on the board it looks like an attempt to use lower power rated components to meet
                    a higher power rating. If they are for bleeding the caps, maybe. I wonder if you could
                    have done better with a selection here when I see the heat stress areas caused by
                    the resistors.
                    an X-Spurt...???.... ... Ho-Boy... now second guessing the design engineers...
                    .

                    *******************************************
                    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                    My Blue Stuff:
                    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                    Dynasty 200DX
                    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                    Millermatic 200

                    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by H80N View Post
                      an X-Spurt...???.... ... Ho-Boy... now second guessing the design engineers...
                      The "H" in H808 must stand for Hijack. You are now on my ignore list.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        so blue do you think I could pick better components or is that just causing a ripple effect down the line of better parts needed to support, "upgrades"?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by spriggan View Post
                          so blue do you think I could pick better components or is that just causing a ripple effect down the line of better parts needed to support, "upgrades"?
                          I think the fact that filter capacitors that leak are out of our control. Unless you check them
                          regularly and re-form them when you see an issue. That is something I would not do myself.

                          With the resistors I see that there are two sets of two resistors in series. The the two sets
                          are in parallel. For a 150K ohm value for all four your circuit has the equivalent impedance
                          of 150K with the power distributed among four smaller components. I was trying to suggest
                          to you that if this was a bleeder resistor you may consider replacing with a slightly larger
                          power rating. The burn marks on the circuit board is not good. Since Miller will probably
                          not publish the circuit diagram I cannot say for sure what those resistors do, You should
                          not have a problem to trace out what they are connected to and decide for yourself. Since
                          the resistors are so close to your filter cap that was my first guess.

                          In case you don't know, a bleed resistor discharges a high voltage capacitor after the
                          power is removed, but it's time constant is not so short as to burden the charging time.
                          It is a safety issue with regard to the service person.

                          Not to keep going on and on with this but one thing you should do is thoroughly clean that
                          board, it needs it. And find out what the purpose of the resistor array is, see if you can
                          get the next higher power rating. Ask Miller. You can email me a drawing of that part of
                          the control board schematic if you want. I can give you my opinion I don't think it would be
                          good to publish it here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            well, received the capacitors from mouser, they are rated at 400volts not 450 like the panasonic ones.

                            I'm confused here again…on the older panasonic capacitors it says 450volts. i am told that is the "VDC working" amount BUT panasonic does not offer a capacitor of this size and nano-farad rate with a 450volt run amount, only a surge amount…I'm assuming the older capacitor is showing the surge amount and the new capacitor is showing the normal operating amount?

                            the new capacitor is smaller in size, same nano-farad(1500), but labeled 400volts. both 5 pin snap on.

                            mouser does not offer what I'm looking for in a 5 pin, only 4 pin...

                            thoughts on this anyone?

                            edit: every time i call mouser i learn more information…the 5th pin may just be a guide pin. i will need to take them off the circuit board and see if thats true, anyone know if that is true?
                            Last edited by spriggan; 06-02-2015, 12:49 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by spriggan View Post
                              well, received the capacitors from mouser, they are rated at 400volts not 450 like the panasonic ones.

                              I'm confused here again…on the older panasonic capacitors it says 450volts. i am told that is the "VDC working" amount BUT panasonic does not offer a capacitor of this size and nano-farad rate with a 450volt run amount, only a surge amount…I'm assuming the older capacitor is showing the surge amount and the new capacitor is showing the normal operating amount?

                              the new capacitor is smaller in size, same nano-farad(1500), but labeled 400volts. both 5 pin snap on.

                              mouser does not offer what I'm looking for in a 5 pin, only 4 pin...

                              thoughts on this anyone?

                              edit: every time i call mouser i learn more information…the 5th pin may just be a guide pin. i will need to take them off the circuit board and see if thats true, anyone know if that is true?
                              Your assumption is wrong. The newer ones probably are not going to be equivalent.
                              If you use them you will lower the margin of safety.
                              And it is not "nano" but "micro-farad". Nano means 10 with a exponent = -9.
                              Micro means 10 with a exponent = -6. 1500uf is what you mean.

                              If you lived close to me I would help you take a look at it. At the very least you
                              should look at what www.Digikey.com has to offer.

                              You will be graded by some of the members here on what you do. You will get a high grade
                              if you buy the parts from Miller or send in your machine and have them fix it for a few thou.
                              A low grade will be given if you identify a problem and find a better part and fix the problem yourself.
                              Last edited by bluesky; 06-03-2015, 01:44 AM.

                              Comment

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