HELP! 430 stainless sink repair

[solidstate]

Three compartment 16 ga. 430 stainless steel scullery sink. The right compartment is filled with a 1:32 bleach solution for disinfecting animal bowls. The weld at the bottom of the divider between the center and right compartment is cracking and water leaks between compartments.

What repair method would be most resistant to corrosion?
TIG? (308L filler?)
Brazing? (filler?)
Braze welding?

We will replace this sink with a 304 (or 316) stainless sink but that will take some time.

Thanks
solidstate

[ryanjones2150]

HELP! 430 stainless sink repair

I would almost certainly TIG it. I do a good bit of stainless repair and fabrication in commercial kitchens, almost all of it stainless steel.

A quick google search brings up issues with brittles after welding and proper filler metals. I have no doubt there is someone on here that can you exactly what you need. Good luck.

[dave powelson]

430 SS sink?

Why do you think the sink material is 430 SS?
......(it ain't)

[H80N]

The only 400 series sinks I have ever seen... came out of Europe and Australia...

Used to be rare in the U.S. but more and more being imported..

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Ap2Z7eUSpkUhy8SmhPMXo.qbvZx4?p=430+stainless+steel+sink&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-901&fp=1

how about some pics of the areas you intend to weld.. so we could give you better informed advice..??

[dave powelson]

430 ss sinks

I stand corrected--had no idea that 430 would be used in such demanding applications--but, it's CHEAPER than 304--(and nobody will know the difference!)
I've seen new 304 SS, 18 gauge sinks--crack out in several months.... they
were 'good & cheap'.

The bleach can create more corrosion cracking problems on its own, even with
304 or 316.
One thing that helps a bunch is placing a loose, cleanable, rubber sheet/mat
resting on the bottom to help absorb the impact of stuff being dropped and thrown in.
Or just furrgetabout all this hassle to repair and set a plastic tub in that
sink cavity for the bleach.

(304 SS sinks have a hard enough time not fracturing on the bottoms)
TIG Welding up the crack with 308 or 430 SS, may reveal more stress/HAZ cracking, but one could try that first. If additional cracking occurs outside the weld, then consider a close fitted 304 SS strip to weld in. If possible, if you can take a sacrificial piece of the 430 and practice setup with, would help you.

The usual caveats about low, low heat input, long post flow, backing up with Solar flux or copper backers, etc.--the usual stuff in dealing with thin sheet SS
apply.

http://fanagalo.co.za/stainless-steel/tech-grade-430.htm

'The steel has limited weldability and should not be used in the as welded condition for dynamic or impact loaded structures.'
......(as in the bottom of a scullery sink)

'430 has adequate weldability for many applications. However it is prone to embrittlement in the weld/haz. The fatigue properties of 430 in the welded condition are poor and it is not recommended for applications where applied tensile or impact loading will be experienced. ' .........(as in the bottom of a scullery sink)

http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/ferritic/430_Data_Sheet.pdf

'The ferritic class of stainless steels is generally considered to be weldable by
the common fusion and resistance techniques.
Special consideration is required to avoid brittle weld fractures during fabrication
by minimizing discontinuities, maintaining low weld heat input, and
occasionally warming the part somewhat before forming. This particular alloy is
generally considered to have poorer weldability than the most common alloy
of the stainless class, Type 409. Major differences are the higher carbon content
and the lack of stabilizing elements for this alloy which require post weld annealingto restore optimum corrosion and forming characteristics. When a weld
filler is needed, AWS E/ER 308L and 430 are most often specified.'

[H80N]

I stand corrected--had no idea that 430 would be used in such demanding applications--but, it's CHEAPER than 304--(and nobody will know the difference!)
I've seen new 304 SS, 18 gauge sinks--crack out in several months.... they
were 'good & cheap'.

The bleach can create more corrosion cracking problems on its own, even with
304 or 316.
One thing that helps a bunch is placing a loose, cleanable, rubber sheet/mat
resting on the bottom to help absorb the impact of stuff being dropped and thrown in.
Or just furrgetabout all this hassle to repair and set a plastic tub in that
sink cavity for the bleach.

(304 SS sinks have a hard enough time not fracturing on the bottoms)
TIG Welding up the crack with 308 or 430 SS, may reveal more stress/HAZ cracking, but one could try that first. If additional cracking occurs outside the weld, then consider a close fitted 304 SS strip to weld in. If possible, if you can take a sacrificial piece of the 430 and practice setup with, would help you.

The usual caveats about low, low heat input, long post flow, backing up with Solar flux or copper backers, etc.--the usual stuff in dealing with thin sheet SS
apply.

http://fanagalo.co.za/stainless-steel/tech-grade-430.htm

'The steel has limited weldability and should not be used in the as welded condition for dynamic or impact loaded structures.'
......(as in the bottom of a scullery sink)

'430 has adequate weldability for many applications. However it is prone to embrittlement in the weld/haz. The fatigue properties of 430 in the welded condition are poor and it is not recommended for applications where applied tensile or impact loading will be experienced. ' .........(as in the bottom of a scullery sink)

http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/ferritic/430_Data_Sheet.pdf

'The ferritic class of stainless steels is generally considered to be weldable by
the common fusion and resistance techniques.
Special consideration is required to avoid brittle weld fractures during fabrication
by minimizing discontinuities, maintaining low weld heat input, and
occasionally warming the part somewhat before forming. This particular alloy is
generally considered to have poorer weldability than the most common alloy
of the stainless class, Type 409. Major differences are the higher carbon content
and the lack of stabilizing elements for this alloy which require post weld annealingto restore optimum corrosion and forming characteristics. When a weld
filler is needed, AWS E/ER 308L and 430 are most often specified.'

Dave....

Really good overview...

[solidstate]

snip lots of good information!

Thank you very much for your reply. And everyone else too.

Our sink is an Eagle 2154-3-16/4 Square-Corner Sink. When I search the part number on Eagle's website the spec sheet lists the material as 430 with 304 as an option. The price was under $500 so I am assuming it is 430.

The weld itself has cracked. The material outside the HAZ looks fine. The weld bead is discolored (grey), pitted, and has rust spots in the compartment for bleach.

I will take a photo in the next few days and post it.

I am pretty sure this sink is doomed but we would like to nurse it along for as long as possible.

I have Solar Flux, 308L filler, and almost anything else I need for TIG welding. If anyone else has any other suggestions, please post them.

Thanks!

[snowbird]

sooo from what i learned from this thread, my old defective dishwasher made in china is 430 ... magnet stick to it too.

i conclude there is no time to waste trying to salvage some piece of that low quality stainless, to the scrap bin it goes.

anyone have a better suggestion? (sorry for the hijacking) thank's for starting this informative thread on 430 ss wich is new to me.

[dave powelson]

bleach resistance of 304 ss

http://metlspan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Sodium-Hypochlorite-Effects-on-Stainless-Steel.pdf

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/bleach-stainless-steel-87018/

above links from doing a quick search of '304 ss bleach resistance'

(Others can do their own search and post findings)--if they surmise that 430 ss will be soooo much more bleach resistant. OP's statement of crack thru the weld fillet, showing rusting....kinda sez otherwise.

IOW--just put a plastic tub in that compartment to hold the bleach.
-----or use another sterilant, non-bleach, that SS will tolerate.
SS doesn't tolerate bleach well--at all.
Both of the above are cost effective solutions.

[elvis]

Just need to replace it all with something like duplex 2205.

[Portable Welder]

sinks can be a real pain in the butt, The bar sinks that are deep and small make it really hard to get down into.

You mentioned brazing the sink, Brass wont stick to the stainless, so dont go that route.

You can however, use silver solder, the stuff I use has a 45% silver content and you need to use hi temp flux.

I have always used 316 grade filler on all my sinks with good success, but you have a 400 series stainless so that might be a problem.

I also dont know how the silver solder will hold up to the bleach.