AEA200LE no arc

[moe1942]

I've been lurking for a couple of months and Have learned a lot. In my opinion the people that post here are the type you would like to have as neighbors.

I have been welding (home work shop) for about 45 years. Primarily stick but also MIG for about 10 years.

I have resurrected a AEA200LE. My question is; why can't I strike an arc. The AC and DC outputs are per spec. I can get the required 95-135 DC volts. I have a super clean ground and stinger. When I drag a rod across the metal I get a very puny spark but when I lift the rod I can't maintain an arc. I have the manual but the problem is beyond the manual troubleshooting guide. It's a great machine even by todays standards and I would like to get it working.


I also have a Bobct 225g, a "Red" AC225, and recently bought a MM175 which I hevent used yet.

Thnks fo any help you can give me on my problem.

moe1942

[H80N]

Moe
this may seem like a dumb question.. but .. do you have GOOD 115dc from the generator? ... by good I mean that you ought to be able to draw some power and not have a drastic voltage drop (electric spaceheater is a good test load and you will not hurt it if the voltage drops..a small one as it only produces 1kw dc while welding )..might also check the 115vac output the same way... if not good I would check the brushes on the sliprings.... they are common to both sets of windings..and are a wear item...(there are several variations of this machine depending on when manufactured)
hope this helps
Heiti

[moe1942]

No arc

H80N Thanks for the reply. I can get 115DC volts. Checked amps with a (9") side grinder about 6 amp draw (756 watts on our line voltaged). The brushes are like new with very little arcing at the commutator. I turned the commutator during the rehab and undercut the mica. All the wiring was checked and connections cleaned. Is there a way to check the reactor, OCV, etc?

I even tried some Southern Comfort but that made my head hurt even more. My bag of tricks is empty. The local Miller people don't really want to fool with it because it is an antique.

Based on what I have said do you think I still need to try the heater to check DC current? If the unit pukes on more DC current where should I start looking??

I'm open to any suggestions.

Thanks

moe1942

[H80N]

Moe
have you checked the current control pot? that would be my next suspect...
Heiti

[H80N]

Moe
I would check the 115vAC output in Power mode..(DC seems fine)
and as far as the reactor goes(AC-Z)... if I read the schematic correctly (this being an AC machine) if it were shorted to itself you should get full output.. and if shorted to ground you would get smoke.. might have bad contacts on the selector switch though...
Heiti

[H80N]

"Official Help"

Moe
I emailed Kevin at Miller with this and he told me that he was going to forward the thread to some of the guys at the engine drive division.. heck they deal with this stuff every day.. and surely have a lot more experience with troubleshooting those problems than I do..
hope this helps
Heiti

[moe1942]

no arc

Thanks for the replies.

This machine doesn't have any adjustable controls. Just has taps ranging from 40-200 amps. Very primitive by todays standards but a very good welder when working. 100% duty cycle at 200 amps DC. It's smaller and lighter than my Bobcat and will have a home on my truck when I get it working.

I really appreciate all the help. I know it is something simple.

moe1942

[H80N]

Moe
are you sure about the right model# ??? ....the machine that I came up with is an AC only welder.with aux power.. we may have been talking apples and oranges all of this time not apples and apples...a double check of model# might simplify things...(serial # would help too) could yours be the Blue Charger version? that one has DC only welding output...(but would still have the fine current adjust knob)...if it were a blue charger.. ser# would probably start with JF9...
thanks
Heiti

[moe1942]

No arc

H80N

I might have egg on my face. I hope I didn't run you down the wrong path with a bad model number. I have two of these same units. One made in 1956 and the other in 1961.

I took the data plate off when I painted it. I have it in my hand. It has the following info.

Ser#K206203

Model AEA-200L(?) I added LE in earlier posts based on the manual I got from Miller. The data plate is pretty beat up and on close examination I can't tell if there ever was anything after the L.

It's an A.C. Power and welding generator. (I was told by a local expert that it was a DC welder.)

Max OCV- 80

Amps-225

Duty cycle- 100%

This machine does not have the adjustable pot, just different work taps.

I apologize for giving you wrong info.

moe1942

[H80N]

No Fault No Foul

Moe
not to worry.. think I have the proper manual for your machine now... sometimes data plates get pretty beat up... here is a link to the pdf.. could you look at it and confirm that we are talking about the same machine?? ... then we can get on with figuring it out... and if nothing else we have worked through the chaff so that the "Official Miller" guys can figure it out... static resistance for the windings would help.. think I saw them for a similar machine will look them up and they should be at least in the ball park...
hope this helps
Heiti

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o410j_mil.pdf

[moe1942]

No arc

H80N

Thank you for your patience. I checked the PDF file you attached. The only similarity between that machine and mine is physical size and appearance.

Mine has the 115 and 220 outlets on the left side (looking fwd) no range control handle or fine current adj pot. The back panel has the DC outlet top right and the row of work taps and the ground tap.

If there is a way to post pictures here I can take some confusion out of the mess i've created. My original thought was there was a universal solution to this problem. So much for thinking..

Please let me know what I can do to make your trouble shooting easier..

moe1942

[H80N]

Moe
the pictures are probably of a newer machine.. there is a schematic that seems to come close to your machine in the manual that I found.. just ignore the pot (note #24 pg 6 of the pdf) and assume that it is jumpered.. that should give you 100percent of amperage available at each tap of the choke (AC-Z)... found a schematic of a similar machine that give resistance values for some of the windings... you might try pulling the brushes and taking readings directly off of the slip rings... removing the brushes will isolate the windings and preclude false readings and ground loops from other circuitry... Now
assuming that the values listed are actual resistance and not impedance.. your readings should be similar.. If the windings are healthy..(schematic with OHM values is on pg 3 of the pdf listed below)

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/oi411a_mil.pdf

hope this is helpful
thanks
Heiti

[moe1942]

No arc

H80N

I went to pg 3 of the pdf but it doesn't look like the circuit I have. Would taking a reading across the slips rings give any indication of the integrity of the armature?

Also, I just found this in the back of my manual. A fax from Miller some years ago said the circuit for my welder is not in the manual they sent and is circuit diagram no. A-149-C2.

To add to the confusion the diagram that was with it doesn't show the selenium rectifier, although the rest of the circuit looks the same.


moe1942

[H80N]

Moe
I am making a rather large assumtion.. that even if your machine were physically different.. that it is probably electrically similar.. and that assuming those values are actual ohms of resistance and not impedance.. you should be able to determine the integrity of the windings by taking the measurements ... we are walking pretty far out on the plank here... and may indeed need to wait till the guys from Miller can research it... would think that they must have a copy of the proper schematic in their library.. and that would sure help... you mentioned a Selenium rectifier.. so am guessing that we are talking about the 1956 machine and not the 1961.. as by then they were being replaced by silicon devices in all applications but high power.. could you scan and email me a copy of the schematic that you have.. and pencil in where the Selenium device is? Depending where it is IT may be the culprit... those old finned devils would develop a high resistance across the junction over time... think it might be worthwhile to take a resistance reading both forward and back across that device.. with it out of the circuit..
thanks
Heiti

[moe1942]

No arc

H80N

Actually the rectifier is in the 61. The earlier unit just had a wire wound resistor, I forget the value.

Since my last post I fired the unit up and as you suggested plugged in a small ceramic heater.(1500 watts). At 125 AC the heater made the voltage drop 10 volts. I think a new governor spring would take care of that.

I have to find a adapter plug before I can check the DC circuit. The polarized plug won't work in that antique receptacle. Will I check the DC voltage drop at welding voltage (95-135)?

Where should I send the scanned material?

Also I will take the rectifier out tomorrow and put a meter on it. Will trace the wiring at the same time.

Once again, thanks for taking the time and having the patience to deal with this problem.

moe1942