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  • What is meant as a "nicer arc"?

    Many on the forums mention some machines have a nicer arc,
    what is meant by this?
    thanks,
    raf

  • #2
    I find that when I like the way an arc feels I call it nicer. The arc on my mm251 is softer than other mig welders and I like the way it runs.
    MillerMatic 251
    Maxstar 150 STH
    Cutmaster 42
    Victor Journeyman OA

    A rockcrawler, er money pit, in progress...

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    • #3
      Different experiences with old transformer machines on stick welding, some lighter and cheaper machines gave the impression of spitting the electrode material into the puddle as better machines seemed to pour gently the electrode into the puddle.


      feeling on poor arc as welding on 10hz frequency contrary to nice arc that even in ac looks close to dc.

      Some guys here may have more acurate description, this is mine

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Raf View Post
        Many on the forums mention some machines have a nicer arc,
        what is meant by this?
        thanks,
        raf
        For me it's about arc quality (DC signal) when compared to a low dollar rectified DC welder.

        On cheaper welders the rectification can be "felt" while welding.

        On an SA-200 DC generator the arc is as close to pure DC as one is likely to get and the rod literally feels like it just melts.

        My 900 lb Airco (Miller 330 abp) is as close as I've found to feeling like pure DC.

        My Lincoln Invertec v250-s is as close to my Airco as I've found.
        Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 03-27-2015, 07:01 PM.
        "Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." ~George Bernard Shaw~

        Airco 300 Heliwelder
        Dialarc 250 AC/DC
        ESAB 161
        Invertec v250 and v300 Pro
        SA200
        Spectrum 700 plasma
        MM210
        Miller HF-15-1
        Dirty ugly tools - perfect

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        • #5
          What is meant by a nicer "arc"?

          Originally posted by snowbird View Post
          Different experiences with old transformer machines on stick welding, some lighter and cheaper machines gave the impression of spitting the electrode material into the puddle as better machines seemed to pour gently the electrode into the puddle.


          feeling on poor arc as welding on 10hz frequency contrary to nice arc that even in ac looks close to dc.

          Some guys here may have more acurate description, this is mine
          Thank You,
          excellent job at describing , really got it.
          Set on a miller thunderbolt 225/150 as a starter machine. Hope this has a nice arc.
          Thanks,
          Raf

          Comment


          • #6
            What is meant by a nicer "arc"?

            Originally posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
            For me it's about arc quality (DC signal) when compared to a low dollar rectified DC welder.

            On cheaper welders the rectification can be "felt" while welding.

            On an SA-200 DC generator the arc is as close to pure DC as one is likely to get and the rod literally feels like it just melts.

            My 900 lb Airco (Miller 330 abp) is as close as I've found to feeling like pure DC.

            My Lincoln Invertec v250-s is as close to my Airco as I've found.
            Thank You,
            again a excellent description that I can understand.
            So, would you agree it is the quality of the machine more than being a transformer based vs a inverter based.
            A friend , as a secound welder, wants me to buy his 1971 miller dialarc 250 ac/dc
            with argon and and water cooled tig gun, all on a cart.
            Would this welder have a nicer arc close to your description?
            my first welder will be a thunderbolt ac/dc 225/150, hope it has a decent arc.
            Thanks,
            Raf

            Comment


            • #7
              Thunderbolt/Stickmate

              Originally posted by Raf View Post
              Thank You,
              again a excellent description that I can understand.
              So, would you agree it is the quality of the machine more than being a transformer based vs a inverter based.
              A friend , as a secound welder, wants me to buy his 1971 miller dialarc 250 ac/dc
              with argon and and water cooled tig gun, all on a cart.
              Would this welder have a nicer arc close to your description?
              my first welder will be a thunderbolt ac/dc 225/150, hope it has a decent arc.
              Thanks,
              Raf

              You may want to consider the Hobart Stickmate. Do some web searches. Seems the consensus is that the Hobart Stickmate is identical to the Thunderbolt with gray paint instead of blue, and costs a bit less. They recently dropped the price to $500 at Northerntool.com with free shipping.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Raf View Post
                Thank You,
                again a excellent description that I can understand.
                So, would you agree it is the quality of the machine more than being a transformer based vs a inverter based.
                A friend , as a secound welder, wants me to buy his 1971 miller dialarc 250 ac/dc
                with argon and and water cooled tig gun, all on a cart.
                Would this welder have a nicer arc close to your description?
                my first welder will be a thunderbolt ac/dc 225/150, hope it has a decent arc.
                Thanks,
                Raf
                I would agree, quality matters

                I'm a fan of Dialarcs - they are very good welders.
                "Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." ~George Bernard Shaw~

                Airco 300 Heliwelder
                Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                ESAB 161
                Invertec v250 and v300 Pro
                SA200
                Spectrum 700 plasma
                MM210
                Miller HF-15-1
                Dirty ugly tools - perfect

                Comment


                • #9
                  I probably used 200 welding machines and only rarely can I tell one from another and maybe some golden arm better than I am can but,,,, The buzzers have the right set up and the arc voltage is about right. You can tune an SA 200 that way too which is the way I like it for general fab work mostly vertical.
                  As for the Tbolt and Stickmate,,, super, a little crisp and just about as good as any machine they make. I ran my Max side by side against a Linc DC buzzer and I actually got to give it to the buzzer, very slight but it arc starts a bit better.
                  The Dialarc is ok, you get away from simple 50A welder service with one and if they were on the other side of a wall you couldn't tell the difference between them.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Sberry; 03-28-2015, 07:39 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Raf View Post
                    ... 1971 miller dialarc 250 ac/dc ...
                    1974 was the first year for the Dialarc 250. I have a very low serial number 1974 unit.
                    Miller stuff:
                    Dialarc 250 (1974)
                    Syncrowave 250 (1992)
                    Spot welder (Dayton badged)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What is meant by a nicer arc?

                      Originally posted by USMCPOP View Post
                      1974 was the first year for the Dialarc 250. I have a very low serial number 1974 unit.
                      my mistake, sorry,
                      My friends unit is a dialarc 250 HF 1977.
                      white face. My bad, in the pic, looked like 1971, but that was elec code ref date.
                      Serial number starts with HH 091xxx.
                      Maybe they started the HF models a little earlier?
                      thank you for always helping with good advice.
                      Thanks,
                      Raf
                      Last edited by Raf; 03-30-2015, 10:07 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Raf View Post
                        my mistake, sorry,
                        My friends unit is a dialarc 250 HF 1971/72
                        white face and date can be seen on the machine.
                        Serial number starts with HH 091xxx.
                        Maybe they started the HF models a little earlier?
                        thank you for always helping with good advice.
                        Thanks,
                        Raf
                        "HH" serial number would be 1977...

                        here is the serial/date chart..

                        http://www.millerwelds.com/service/s...reference.html
                        .

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                        • #13
                          My son doesn't want to give up the Dialarc (non-HF) even though we have a Syncrowave, because it welds nice. However, he doesn't have any time in on the Idealarc 250 I got some time later.

                          Hard to beat a DC generator welder, though some inverters are apparently marvelous. Like cars, they all handle and respond a little differently. Look for the welders that have stood the test of time.
                          Miller stuff:
                          Dialarc 250 (1974)
                          Syncrowave 250 (1992)
                          Spot welder (Dayton badged)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What is meant by a nice arc?

                            Originally posted by USMCPOP View Post
                            My son doesn't want to give up the Dialarc (non-HF) even though we have a Syncrowave, because it welds nice. However, he doesn't have any time in on the Idealarc 250 I got some time later.

                            Hard to beat a DC generator welder, though some inverters are apparently marvelous. Like cars, they all handle and respond a little differently. Look for the welders that have stood the test of time.
                            Which has the nicer arc for stickwelding, the synchrowave or the dial arc?
                            thanks,
                            Raf

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think they are about the same. I been at this a while and unless something is wrong or its on the wrong polarity I cant tell one machine from the next. I am tempted to fire one up against the other but the differences would be so minor I doubt I could tell especially if I havnt been welding regular.

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