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Do I need a different gas regulator when using straight C02?

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  • Do I need a different gas regulator when using straight C02?

    Have the Horbat Ironman 230 welder, it came with argon mix regulator/flow gauge.
    Do I really need a different regulator to use straight C02 gas?
    If I do any recommendations as to which one to purchase?

  • #2
    Originally posted by burntside bob View Post
    Have the Horbat Ironman 230 welder, it came with argon mix regulator/flow gauge.
    Do I really need a different regulator to use straight C02 gas?
    If I do any recommendations as to which one to purchase?
    The stems are very different... so must have a different REG or adapter nipple..

    A CO2 bottle has a flat surface on the valve.... so the regulator has a flat surface and hard plastic or teflon gasket as in this pic
    Attached Files
    .

    *******************************************
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    • #3
      Originally posted by burntside bob View Post
      Have the Horbat Ironman 230 welder, it came with argon mix regulator/flow gauge.
      Do I really need a different regulator to use straight C02 gas?
      If I do any recommendations as to which one to purchase?
      I recently talked to a guy that owns and runs a regulator rebuild shop. I specifically asked him if there was any reason to have a different reg/flow control for C02 for mig welding. He said not that he could think of. That's for MIG only now.. He said maybe dual stage to split the expansion ratio a tiny bit but all the sets he puts together for mig are all standard sets other than the mating fittings. If you want to use the C02 for high flow systems then there may be an issue.

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      • #4
        The Mating Fittings Are The Issue..

        Originally posted by Sandy View Post
        I recently talked to a guy that owns and runs a regulator rebuild shop. I specifically asked him if there was any reason to have a different reg/flow control for C02 for mig welding. He said not that he could think of. That's for MIG only now.. He said maybe dual stage to split the expansion ratio a tiny bit but all the sets he puts together for mig are all standard sets other than the mating fittings. If you want to use the C02 for high flow systems then there may be an issue.
        The Major issue is that an Argon Regulator WILL NOT CONNECT to a CO2 bottle without changing out the nipple or putting an adapter between...
        They are different..

        Another issue is Regulator Freezing at higher flow rates

        Some of the dedicated CO2 regulators are finned or heated to deal with this problem..
        Like this Harris 6CD

        http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...Model-6CD.aspx
        Attached Files
        .

        *******************************************
        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

        My Blue Stuff:
        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200DX
        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
        Millermatic 200

        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by H80N View Post
          The Major issue is that an Argon Regulator WILL NOT CONNECT to a CO2 bottle without changing out the nipple or putting an adapter between...
          They are different..

          Another issue is Regulator Freezing at higher flow rates

          Some of the dedicated CO2 regulators are finned or heated to deal with this problem..
          Like this Harris 6CD

          http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...Model-6CD.aspx
          The CGA (type of tank fitting) isn't really a fixed part of the regulator. Sure C02's are generally CGA320's with a face washer, but that's just the fitting. The regulator and gauges are the same.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sandy View Post
            The CGA (type of tank fitting) isn't really a fixed part of the regulator. Sure C02's are generally CGA320's with a face washer, but that's just the fitting. The regulator and gauges are the same.
            And your point is..??

            That does not negate the fact that

            Before using an Argon/Oxy regulator for CO2

            You still need to either alter it by changing out to a CO2 style nipple or add an inline adapter
            Last edited by H80N; 03-10-2015, 08:17 AM.
            .

            *******************************************
            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

            My Blue Stuff:
            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
            Dynasty 200DX
            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
            Millermatic 200

            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

            Comment


            • #7
              Should have listened to HN! The guy knows his stuff.

              Yes the cheap azz stock flow meter will work, but it's not going to fit on the CO2 bottle. That adaptor or nipple is rather $. Best to get a clone flow meter for CO2, mostly cause the CO2 tends to freeze the 2 stage regulator.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by H80N View Post
                And your point is..??

                That does not negate the fact that

                Before using an Argon/Oxy regulator for CO2

                You still need to either alter it by changing out to a CO2 style nipple or add an inline adapter

                Point is, the input nipple doesn't dictate the type and/or function of the regulator. For mig and tig, it's all in the body of the regulator and the orifice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                  Should have listened to HN! The guy knows his stuff.

                  Yes the cheap azz stock flow meter will work, but it's not going to fit on the CO2 bottle. That adaptor or nipple is rather $. Best to get a clone flow meter for CO2, mostly cause the CO2 tends to freeze the 2 stage regulator.

                  Yeh, a shop that's been in business for two generations wouldn't know anything I'm sure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sandy View Post
                    Point is, the input nipple doesn't dictate the type and/or function of the regulator. For mig and tig, it's all in the body of the regulator and the orifice.
                    ......

                    Originally posted by Sandy View Post
                    Yeh, a shop that's been in business for two generations wouldn't know anything I'm sure.
                    Maybe you might go back to that shop and doublecheck your assertions..??
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by H80N; 03-10-2015, 09:29 AM.
                    .

                    *******************************************
                    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                    My Blue Stuff:
                    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                    Dynasty 200DX
                    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                    Millermatic 200

                    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Consider too the different densities of the gasses. Flowmeters are calibrated for the specific gas service, but for most applications, 99% of the time the difference is negligible. However, if you are working off a WPS this would matter.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A high pressure Argon flow meter will work with CO2, after all cfm is cfm on any bottled gas. However, a low pressure CO2 meter will not work with high pressure Argon.

                        Because the bottles have different pressures, the bottle outputs are different. Kinda get it now....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          By calibrated I mean each gas has a different density in atmosphere. That determines how much gas it takes to move the ball or needle on a given regulator. CO2 is 'heavier' than Argon, so you can imagine it changes the way it moves the needle or ball. Like I said, the difference may only be 10% either way between the gasses and for most of us it's no big deal.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thinkin that Argon is heavier than Co2

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by burntside bob View Post
                              Have the Horbat Ironman 230 welder, it came with argon mix regulator/flow gauge.
                              Do I really need a different regulator to use straight C02 gas?
                              If I do any recommendations as to which one to purchase?
                              You need an adapter

                              http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1715678...lpid=82&chn=ps

                              http://weldwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/ein...LDWH:1:312=806

                              and the Nylon/plastic washer that is pictured in H80N's post.
                              Last edited by Broccoli1; 03-10-2015, 03:59 PM.
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