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which wire to use .030 or .035

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  • Tryagn5
    replied
    Originally posted by farmer welder View Post
    I Totally agree with Jsfab. The Hobart 230 is Way too light for repairing digger buckets. Nothing compares to the good old stick welder for the conditions associated with that type of repair. Joe.
    Hobart ironman 230 will do 95 percent of all heavy equipment repairs. I have been an heavy equipment mechanic for 20 years. Will it be as fast as a machine which can air arc, run larger wires like .052 and up no...However there is more than enough amps in that machine.
    Also fyi stick machines are hardly used much for repair. In the field for short quick repairs is about it. Try to rebuild a bucket, hardface, or production weld with stick..takes way to long. No way that machine is going to get shut down for 3 days when a wire feeder can do it in 1 day.
    Kevin

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  • farmer welder
    replied
    I Totally agree with Jsfab. The Hobart 230 is Way too light for repairing digger buckets. Nothing compares to the good old stick welder for the conditions associated with that type of repair. Joe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Synchroman
    replied
    Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
    If your a hobby welder I would only consider c25. It is cheap enough, especially with how little you will use. One less thing to battle for a novice welder.
    Yes, that's a possibility, except they get $65 to exchange a 160 customer-owned cylinder at my LWS and Airgas is even more. Thus, C25 is a non-starter since I would be exchanging at the same intervals.

    As I mentioned, anti-spatter gel or spray makes the difference and for the difference in money, CO2 does the trick for me.

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  • Cgotto6
    replied
    If your a hobby welder I would only consider c25. It is cheap enough, especially with how little you will use. One less thing to battle for a novice welder.

    Leave a comment:


  • Synchroman
    replied
    I'm a Hobby welder but I work with 1/4" mild steel quite a bit on my projects. I have a Miller 252 and I generally use .035 with straight CO2. It makes very nice welds with exellent penetration.

    As mentioned, there is somewhat more spatter with CO2, but with liberal use of weld gel, the difference is minimal. I use a tip with the center recessed 1/8" and they seem to last a very long time. I will keep the tip very clean between welds and even dip it in the gel before welds. I've also used anti-spatter spray and it works well also.

    CO2 is very inexpensive as well. I can exchange a 20# cylinder for $25 including tax at my LWS.

    As probably everyone here knows, one pound of CO2 expandes to approximately 8 cubic feet of gas, so the 20# cylinder provides up to 160 cu feet of gas. This lasts me quite a while.

    With moderate flow rates and moderate welding session length, there is no problem with freezing the ball regulator. If longer periods and higher rates are used, heated regulators are available.

    All that said, if I were working to spec on a customer's project, I would certainly use C25 since it's easier to get clean welds. That would be a setting where I would be getting paid so why not used the best? LOL.

    So, .035 and CO2 are my favorites. I have also used .030 and it's OK. I have the drive rollers and liner for .024 if I ever need to do a lot of sheet metal. On my former Lincoln SP175 Plus, I used .024 and CO2 all of the time because it fit in with the capabilities of the machine.

    With the MM252, larger wire is best, IMHO due to the awesome capabilities of the unit, which will do up to half inch plate with no problem.

    The MM252 had me from hello. It's an awesome machine!!!

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  • JSFAB
    replied
    Originally posted by burntside bob View Post
    New to MIG welding.
    And I am not a professional welder, weld only when I have to on my heavy earth moving equipment.
    Will be welding .025 steel tubing together, with Ironman 230 welder.
    Is it best to grind the edges so there is say 1/16 gap on the edge of the tube being welded to the other tubes face? Or would it not make much difference with MIG welding?

    Which wire to use .030 or .035? Please explain in some detail the differences?
    I have been told by a "expert MIG Welder" that I should use .030 wire because it welds hotter for deeper penetration, like a 5/8 inch water hose with a nozzle attached vs .035 wire a 5/8 inch water hose with out a nozzle attached.

    Would straight CO2 gas work just as fine as a mix 75/25 gas? What difference would there be between the two gases? Please explain in some detail the differences.

    About to order up a Horbart Ironman 230 welder, should work for my needs, up to 1/2 inch steel.

    Getting away from the stick welder.
    Not exactly sure what you mean by "heavy earth moving equipment". I've been welding on these for years, I have 500 amp engine drives, multi process, we can switch back and forth from CC (airarc) and CV (big wire). With wire, I especially like the flux core, gas shielded stuff. I don't screw around on this, I just set everything as high as I can get away with, and weld away. Not sure how an Ironman 230 will fit your needs, unless you have somebody else to do the real heavy duty work, including buildup and hardfacing.

    Straight CO2 will work better if there is any galvanized, rust, or paint contamination in your weld zone. Even in normal use, you will get a somewhat narrower, deeper penetration profile. It is harder to deal with out of position (read: overhead and uphill vertical), this takes practice. It will also spatter more, but I doubt that matters to a guy moving dirt.

    Straight CO2 is also far cheaper than any mixed gas.
    Last edited by JSFAB; 02-20-2015, 01:51 PM.

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  • JSFAB
    replied
    Originally posted by Sandy View Post
    I think the phrase "hotter" gets thrown around too much too often. Here's what Lincoln has to say:

    "Electrode Diameter: when welding with two different diameters of the same electrode and at the same current level, generally more penetration is achieved with the smaller diameter electrode than with the larger diameter electrode (see Figure 5). If you look at an end slice of each size wire, the smaller diameter has less cross sectional area than the larger diameter. As the same amount of current flows through each electrode, the concentration or density of current is greater in the smaller diameter electrode than in the larger diameter electrode. As a result of this higher current density, the smaller diameter electrode will have greater weld penetration than the larger diameter electrode. Note however that every electrode diameter has a maximum current density before the welding arc becomes very unstable and erratic. So as current reaches a certain level, it will become necessary to increase the electrode diameter."

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...netration.aspx

    But then they are talking about wires of different sizes and the penetration at the point of the arc only.... The difference between .030 and .035 ain't much. You can also change the cone size and current density by simply changing the tip to work distance too. Be really tough for a guy like me to tell any difference in penetration at the point of the arc since I'd likely have the machine tuned different also. Add my wavering CTWD and jerky progression and all the theory is out the door.
    This is correct, the heat is more concentrated with smaller wire. Generally, I use a .030 wire for 210 and under machines, .035 for 250 class machines (which your 230 is). There are no benefits to going with a .045 wire unless you have at least 300 or 350 amps available. You can look up the tables, both Lincoln and Hobart, with solid wire you will get better disposition rates with .035 on a 250 amp machine.

    Edit: I have never seen anything yet coming off the Lincoln website that wasn't true.
    Last edited by JSFAB; 02-20-2015, 12:47 PM.

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  • Tryagn5
    replied
    Originally posted by burntside bob View Post
    Any reply to my other questions in the post.
    It is my understanding from reading these posts that either .030 or .035 will work just fine. Hardly any difference in results correct?

    What about grinding the edge off the steel tube before welding?

    Gas 75/25 or 100% CO2 is there a difference in weld strength and pentration of weld with either gas?
    75/25=less splatter, bettar weld appearance. Will need to increase voltage 1-2 volts.

    100 co2=more slatter, hotter weld, reduced weld appearance.

    Either .035 or .030.

    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • burntside bob
    replied
    Originally posted by burntside bob View Post
    New to MIG welding.
    And I am not a professional welder, weld only when I have to on my heavy earth moving equipment.
    Will be welding .025 steel tubing together, with Ironman 230 welder.
    Is it best to grind the edges so there is say 1/16 gap on the edge of the tube being welded to the other tubes face? Or would it not make much difference with MIG welding?

    Which wire to use .030 or .035? Please explain in some detail the differences?
    I have been told by a "expert MIG Welder" that I should use .030 wire because it welds hotter for deeper penetration, like a 5/8 inch water hose with a nozzle attached vs .035 wire a 5/8 inch water hose with out a nozzle attached.

    Would straight CO2 gas work just as fine as a mix 75/25 gas? What difference would there be between the two gases? Please explain in some detail the differences.

    About to order up a Horbart Ironman 230 welder, should work for my needs, up to 1/2 inch steel.

    Getting away from the stick welder.
    Any reply to my other questions in the post.
    It is my understanding from reading these posts that either .030 or .035 will work just fine. Hardly any difference in results correct?

    What about grinding the edge off the steel tube before welding?

    Gas 75/25 or 100% CO2 is there a difference in weld strength and pentration of weld with either gas?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Originally posted by Tryagn5 View Post
    Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
    That bit you heard from the guy claiming it welds hotter is worthless. You just need to size your wire to the amps you will run on the weld.
    I would argue larger wire does burn hotter, with more peneration. Take 1/2 steel, .025 vs
    .045, which one would produce a quality weld with one pass? You could not turn the wire speed up fast enough on .025 to do the same as .045. Next take thin exhaust tubing, good luck turning the wire speed and voltage down enough for .045 to be pratical to use. Why....takes x amount of voltages to melt wire, x amount of volts is also to hot for base material.
    I argue this all the time where people try to convince me that .035 is the fit all for all welds.
    Kevin
    I would argue that is a moot point. You are comparing apples to oranges. If you read what I said, you need to size the electrode to the amperage to be run during the required weld. I did not say anything about using .024 to burn a single pass on 1/2" steel. That would be far past the current saturation point of .024, so choosing a larger wire would be required. But his specific question was, when welding quarter inch material for instance, you could use either .030 or .035, since they both would be within range of amps. The sizing of electrodes amperage ranges overlap a bit, so you choose the electrode size that suits your needs best. Burning a pass at 170 amps weld current with .030 is no different than burning a pass with .035, you just run less wfs with the .035.

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  • gnforge
    replied
    which wire to use .030 or .035

    Yeper elvis, it's not about one wire having more penetration than another. It's about matching wire to metal. Same as matching Rod to metal.
    1/4" can be welded with .035 or .045, both will work fine, he needs to look at what he will be welding 75% of time and match wire to that.
    In my shop I mostly weld metal thicker than 1/4" so my go to is .045.
    Your right it would be foolish to run .045 if your welding lighter metal 75% of day.
    My phone says -25 deg at local high school this morning. It's gona be a cold one today. Ready for this winter to be over!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • elvis
    replied
    I definitely don't think that 035 is the end all electrode. For what this guy is doing it seems like a good all around wire. I don't weld over 1/4" much so I just use 035. I also don't weld much that is smaller so I don't step down to 025 wire.

    If I had a project with .325+ I'd definitely go bigger on the wire. That just isn't what I weld.

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  • gnforge
    replied
    which wire to use .030 or .035

    I agree with Kevin. I run .045 for 1/4" and most of the time I'll just run .045 for 1/8" unless doing a lot of lighter metal with it.
    Greg

    Leave a comment:


  • Sandy
    replied
    I think the phrase "hotter" gets thrown around too much too often. Here's what Lincoln has to say:

    "Electrode Diameter: when welding with two different diameters of the same electrode and at the same current level, generally more penetration is achieved with the smaller diameter electrode than with the larger diameter electrode (see Figure 5). If you look at an end slice of each size wire, the smaller diameter has less cross sectional area than the larger diameter. As the same amount of current flows through each electrode, the concentration or density of current is greater in the smaller diameter electrode than in the larger diameter electrode. As a result of this higher current density, the smaller diameter electrode will have greater weld penetration than the larger diameter electrode. Note however that every electrode diameter has a maximum current density before the welding arc becomes very unstable and erratic. So as current reaches a certain level, it will become necessary to increase the electrode diameter."

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...netration.aspx

    But then they are talking about wires of different sizes and the penetration at the point of the arc only.... The difference between .030 and .035 ain't much. You can also change the cone size and current density by simply changing the tip to work distance too. Be really tough for a guy like me to tell any difference in penetration at the point of the arc since I'd likely have the machine tuned different also. Add my wavering CTWD and jerky progression and all the theory is out the door.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tryagn5
    replied
    well...

    Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
    That bit you heard from the guy claiming it welds hotter is worthless. You just need to size your wire to the amps you will run on the weld.
    I would argue larger wire does burn hotter, with more peneration. Take 1/2 steel, .025 vs
    .045, which one would produce a quality weld with one pass? You could not turn the wire speed up fast enough on .025 to do the same as .045. Next take thin exhaust tubing, good luck turning the wire speed and voltage down enough for .045 to be pratical to use. Why....takes x amount of voltages to melt wire, x amount of volts is also to hot for base material.
    I argue this all the time where people try to convince me that .035 is the fit all for all welds.
    Kevin

    Leave a comment:

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