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  • Which Rod or Wire are you using on construction equipment

    Been doing a lot of reading on the Forum and wherever I could find any information and I came across an interview with a metallurgical engineer.
    Thomas J. Black, manager of hardfacing and high-alloy products for The Lincoln Electric Company in Cleveland, OH

    The article went on to talk about the various metals and alloys that construction equipment are fabricated with and goes on to say that E7018 should not be used in hardfacing applications as a buildup material since it has a tensile strength of only 70,000 psi and a yield strength of only 58,000 psi.
    The article goes on to say welders are using the E7018-type welding rod or wire to construct the buildup layer, when that material is too soft and too weak for the application. Also welders often select a hardfacing material that is not suitable.

    What rods do you use on construction equipment? Which rod and on which parts/areas of construction equipment.

    Have you been calling the manufacturers and asking them what materials the construction-equipment components are made from to determine which rod or wire to use?

    How are you determining the hardfacing rod or wire you are using for abrasion or impact?

    I know the Lincoln series of books and the miller books are a fantastic source on metallurgy but I do see many welders are using E7018 as the rod to go to.

    Just asking and Thanks for your replies.
    Trailblazer 325 EFI
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    Mig 4HD & Mig 2E wire feeders
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  • #2
    Originally posted by TerryL View Post
    Been doing a lot of reading on the Forum and wherever I could find any information and I came across an interview with a metallurgical engineer.
    Thomas J. Black, manager of hardfacing and high-alloy products for The Lincoln Electric Company in Cleveland, OH

    The article went on to talk about the various metals and alloys that construction equipment are fabricated with and goes on to say that E7018 should not be used in hardfacing applications as a buildup material since it has a tensile strength of only 70,000 psi and a yield strength of only 58,000 psi.
    The article goes on to say welders are using the E7018-type welding rod or wire to construct the buildup layer, when that material is too soft and too weak for the application. Also welders often select a hardfacing material that is not suitable.

    What rods do you use on construction equipment? Which rod and on which parts/areas of construction equipment.

    Have you been calling the manufacturers and asking them what materials the construction-equipment components are made from to determine which rod or wire to use?

    How are you determining the hardfacing rod or wire you are using for abrasion or impact?

    I know the Lincoln series of books and the miller books are a fantastic source on metallurgy but I do see many welders are using E7018 as the rod to go to.

    Just asking and Thanks for your replies.
    First hardfacing rod has little to no strength it for impact and wear resistant. Also the more impact resistant it is the less wear resistant it is. Also if 7018 is not strong enough which rod would be suitable??? 7018 has been used for 25 years on equipment. I think you might be over thinking here.
    kevin
    Lincoln ranger 305g x2
    Ln25
    Miller spectrum 625
    Miller 30a spoolgun
    Wc115a
    Lincoln 210mp
    F550 imt service truck

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    • #3
      Which Rod or Wire are you using on construction equipment

      The reason for 7018 is misunderstanding and poor decision making. 7018 is cheap compared to hard facing rod but you will spend way more man hours welding it on all the time. You base the hard facing on the job it will be doing. More impact with solid objects like rock you use a lower Rockwell hardness rod. More just abrasion and you up the hardness. If you are unsure ask a consumables rep. That's what they are there for. Just fyi I've had good luck with stoody and blueshield hard facing rod and wire

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      • #4
        Which Rod or Wire are you using on construction equipment

        TerryL: That is a lot to cover in one response and keep reading that's how you learn. But kinda comparing apples & oranges.
        7018 is by far the go to Rod in bucket repair but in hardsurface buildup experienced welders will use the correct Rod for that application. Yes backyard repairers will just use 7018 & throw hardsurface Rod on top but that's by far not how good welders do there repairs.
        Experienced welders will also match there Rod or wire to there metal. Plain mild steel use 7018
        And 7018 will be the Rod in a lot of other steel but by far not all.
        In hardsurfacing as Manisoba & Tryagn5 said you need to match Rod or wire to application. Along with that you will need to use correct build up Rod for hardsurface application if needed. And these company's hv there on products and reps to advise on which to use.
        Even in the hardsurface Rod there is limits and guide lines to follow. Some require 2- bead some 3-bead some no more than 2 etc a lot to learn in this area if your going to be good at it.
        Even if you are applying just hardsurface Rod or wire your 1st bead will absorb mix with base metal and will not be as hard as required the 2nd bead in most cases will be hard to spec but some recommend 3 beads to obtain required hardness others don't.
        Kinda like in the old days the really good Blacksmiths pick would dig 10 times the coal still be sharp and not break. The guy that doesn't know or doesn't care his breaks or goes dull in the 1st day.
        Stay at it. That's how we learn. Takes a lifetime to master

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        • #5
          I am basically a fix anything welder. Farm/construction equipment, truck beds, kind of whatever breaks I get calls. I primarily use wire. Hobart 21b outdoors & esab 7100 ultra indoors. Of course I also use er70s as needed. For stick I use 7018. For hard face check here.

          http://www.mwsco.com/kb/articles/19990614a.htm
          MM250
          Trailblazer 250g
          22a feeder
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          Victor O/A
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          • #6
            i do alot of buildup work on choke manifolds and have always used plain old 7018. never had anything come apart yet.the only time i ever had to use a hard wire is on crane booms and pedistals and if i can remember it was lincoln 9k2 really smooth burning wire now i just run dual shield on all jobs or 7018 . isn't it possible to just aneal the meta after welding it to harden it up?

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            • #7
              Which Rod or Wire are you using on construction equipment

              Well actually annealing a metal is to remove the hardness or to return it to its workable state. And or to remove internal stress.
              Harding a metal is mostly related to the carbon content of that metal, higher carbon, harder but more brittle. In most cases you would heat to red hot then quench or cool very fast. That will harden a higher carbon steel but will become brittle. So you need to temper by reheating to lower temp or dull red then let cool to desired color ie. blue then quench again. This will remove some of hardness but also brittleness so it is tough and not brittle and retains the hardness needed per tool requirement.
              Mild steel will not really harden much at all, but with a small amount of carbon it will harden excessively. Don't forget this applies to welding in the HAZ area. As your heating to high heat and cooling quickly if your welding thick metal with out preheat.

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              • #8
                I believe this is the article in question:

                http://www.gradingandexcavation.com/...g_Ha_5595.aspx
                Miller stuff:
                Dialarc 250 (1974)
                Syncrowave 250 (1992)
                Spot welder (Dayton badged)

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                • #9
                  Well, I suppose I'm a sucker, spend too much, overthink, but I tend to go by the book, assuming that the metallurgists and chemists and engineers who spend their careers trying to improve the consumables we use surely know more than I do. I use 7018 where appropriate, but for hardfacing I use real build-up rod under the last few layers of hardface. Sometimes some stainless rod will substitute for build-up rod if I got a good price on it. HSLA and manganese steels get special treatment if you go by the book. Often you have to guess at what the metal is, and make little field-tests, because the bucket has no manufacturer markings, and because half the time when you call the manufacturer you get somebody who doesn't know for sure but is willing to guess, which you can do yourself.

                  Granted, as some of the fellas above will tell you, if you go strictly by the book you could end up with lots of boxes of rod, each of which is "the best" for some very particular metal or application, when some more generic rod that you'd use more often might work fine (all this applies to wire, too). The consumables makers, marketers, and sales force doesn't want you to be frugal. So you use some judgment.

                  But never forget that this country is overrun by hordes of smart, energetic lawyers. The book might protect you from one of them someday.

                  Long ago I went through a service class by a big outboard motor maker for their dealership mechanics. One day the instructor said, "You know that big can or drawer of leftover nuts and bolts and washers and studs and small parts and such?" Yeah, of course we all had one.

                  "Well, throw it out! Or take it home. Just get it out of the shop. Because someday, one of our fine customers is going to be out trolling for silvers (salmon) and our engine will quit on him because he was using a tank of ancient pre-mix gas which he hadn't shaken up, and the oil had settled out of suspension, or there was water in it, or WHATEVER, the engine quits, and it WAS NOT OUR FAULT! So he drifts over some rocks, falls out of the boat, and drowns."

                  "His widow's lawyer finds out that your dealership, and YOU, had serviced his engine at some point. This lawyer's hired expert (*****) finds that you have used a part from that spare parts bin. In court, the lawyer WILL ask you about why you used that part rather than a part from the shelf, a part with a number, accounted for on the invoice. He will ask why you didn't use a part with a number. "Are YOU a manufacturer, sir?," he will demand, "Do YOU know more about this engine than the manufacturer?!" That the part you used, the work you did, had no bearing whatever on the customer drowning, WILL NOT MATTER.

                  This is one reason you might think about using the rod specified by the maker. Even though you know your choice would have been perfectly good, for some jobs it might be well to CYA. If you ever are having to answer to one of these legal sharks, it could get you off the hook if you went by the book. CYA, which is practiced at every level and sub-level and micro-level of economic activity in this country is hurting us badly in terms of business competitiveness with countries that don't have our idiotic legal system. It's absurd, but it's real, and you don't want to expose yourself too much.

                  Pardon the rant but I don't think it is too far off-topic, even though it probably isn't a consideration for hardfacing jobs . . . .

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                  • #10
                    I believe most of the people who answered the OP didn't really read his question. He wasn't talking about using 7018 as a hardface, but using it as a build-up material. Build-up is done before hardfacing, simply to replace the worn parts of the parent material.

                    To answer the original questions:

                    "goes on to say that E7018 should not be used in hardfacing applications as a buildup material since it has a tensile strength of only 70,000 psi and a yield strength of only 58,000 psi."

                    This is correct. Every hardfacing wire/rod manufacturer I know of (including, but not limited to, Lincoln, Stoody, Postalloy) offers one or more buildup products. These are harder, tougher, and denser than 7018. 7018 when used as buildup has an annoying habit of flexing and squirting out when under pressure, even if hardfacing is applied on top.

                    "What rods do you use on construction equipment? Which rod and on which parts/areas of construction equipment."

                    Depends on the application. There is no single "fits all applications" hardface that will work for everything. I have stuff that works for metal to metal wear, metal to clay, metal to sand, metal to concrete, etc. A lot of this depends on your own experience and observations.

                    "Have you been calling the manufacturers and asking them what materials the construction-equipment components are made from to determine which rod or wire to use?"

                    I have attempted to call equipment manufacturers in the past about their equipment, except in a very few cases they were no help. They would rather the owner brings the equipment back to the dealer for repair/rebuild. I also, however, call or email the welding rod/wire manufacturers, quite a few times over the years these customer service reps/engineers have helped me solve problems.

                    "How are you determining the hardfacing rod or wire you are using for abrasion or impact?"

                    In most cases, this is based on my own personal experience. However, I have never been shy or embarrassed about calling a welding engineer with the filler metals manufacturer. if I needed more information.

                    While 7018 is an excellent welding rod, it is a lousy buildup rod.
                    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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                    • #11
                      For many years Lincolns BU-90 (get it...BU, Build UP) was the build up weapon of choice, a 90,000 LB spec rod. Not 7018.
                      It's gone now but Lincoln's replacement is Wearshield BU.

                      There are many other more costly options as well. Very little buildup work is done with stick rod these days. But for stick the Wearshield BU is the ticket for longest life possible on most applications.

                      Buildup options are available in wire too.

                      J
                      Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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                      • #12
                        We use Lincore33 for build up. Since it is ss flux core, it is good outdoors. And produces a machineable deposit.
                        Jeff

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TerryL View Post
                          Been doing a lot of reading on the Forum and wherever I could find any information and I came across an interview with a metallurgical engineer.
                          Thomas J. Black, manager of hardfacing and high-alloy products for The Lincoln Electric Company in Cleveland, OH

                          The article went on to talk about the various metals and alloys that construction equipment are fabricated with and goes on to say that E7018 should not be used in hardfacing applications as a buildup material since it has a tensile strength of only 70,000 psi and a yield strength of only 58,000 psi.
                          The article goes on to say welders are using the E7018-type welding rod or wire to construct the buildup layer, when that material is too soft and too weak for the application. Also welders often select a hardfacing material that is not suitable.

                          What rods do you use on construction equipment? Which rod and on which parts/areas of construction equipment.

                          Have you been calling the manufacturers and asking them what materials the construction-equipment components are made from to determine which rod or wire to use?

                          How are you determining the hardfacing rod or wire you are using for abrasion or impact?

                          I know the Lincoln series of books and the miller books are a fantastic source on metallurgy but I do see many welders are using E7018 as the rod to go to.

                          Just asking and Thanks for your replies.
                          Back when I was in school, I dropped an e-mail request to Hobart and Lincoln. They both sent nice books of their consumables free, postage paid. The books list all their electrodes and wire-as well as the specs and their intended purpose. Lot of good information in them.

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