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  • maxstar300LX
    replied
    Or…

    Think of it of what happens to laptop over time when
    cpu fan gets dusty ,overheats fan lubricating oil, eventually dries up…

    graphics processor fan gets dusty ,overheats fan lubricating oil…

    are the circuit board component heat sinks up to the challenge of cooling when the fans suddenly quit.
    What happens to the software operations when that happens??
    doesnt it start throwing errors? Operations slow down??? Etc?

    aftermarket fans that mount on bottom of laptop cooling vents to also help the process of heat on operator and on laptop components.
    just thinkin out soft…

    Leave a comment:


  • maxstar300LX
    replied
    Ahhh superbowls over, weekend too-back to work!

    Ok ,
    thanks for the updates, hope all goes well on your unit.

    Just thinking out loud…

    " It does not suggest that they were 'within specification' though"
    maybe. Was thinking if the capacitance value was close or slightly under the printed value on the can, as well as what the printed date code was too.

    ""Also the failure mode was 'last time I used it several years ago it worked until I shut it off' which suggests it was not suffering from overheating at that time and 'did absolutely nothing from the instant I turned it on a month ago' which suggests it did not have time to overheat.""


    well i was thinking along the lines of running it hard and then immediately switching unit off while cooling fan now kicked in just before shutting off creating 'heat soak' to the components directly bolted or in close proximity to the heat sink.
    think of it as running a turbo charged car hard then immediately switching off engine and the 'heat soak' of hot metal in contact with the oil which is now not flowing and getting overheated over a certain lubricating temp to form hard compounds which slowly buildup over time, form deposits on the rotating parts which eventually wear the same rotating parts over time.
    Hence the development of turbo timers (aftermarket) to help reduce/eliminate 'heat soak' of the lubricating oil.

    Leave a comment:


  • arvidj
    replied
    Originally posted by maxstar300LX View Post
    -which would make it a 2008 vintage?

    Correct

    - I'm not sure but is this a pre-blue lightening unit?

    Correct

    -both behave like reliable units

    In my opinion, yes.

    -Suggested troubleshooting remedies no problems here

    Correct. Take the cover off and most everything is easily accessible.

    -was plug corrosion the real culprit as suggested earlier???

    I do not believe plug corrosion was the isue. Disconnecting, spraying contact cleaner on and then replacing every connector I could find had no effect on the outcome.

    - so were the electrolytic capacitors the culprits ? What were their final values ? Borderline?? 2008-2014 is 6 years of almost no activity for the caps and other semiconductors and yes the caps do have a storage/ shelf life & working life too.

    I do not believe the capacitors were the issue. The recommendation from Miller was to replace the Power Module. The recommendation from the LWS Tech was "When Miller replaces a Power Module under warranty they also replace the capacitors. I suggest you also replace the capacitors even thought Miller did not mention them."

    In my testing I had noted that both capacitors showed a decaying voltage after power was turned off. This suggests to me that (a) they were not shorted as there was no smoke involved and (b) they were not open as they showed a decaying voltage. It does not suggest that they were 'within specification' though.

    I suspect, but have no proof of, IC infant mortality on the Power Module board.

    My other question is if the thermal paste used between heat sinks and the hot semi conductors 'dry out' over time and need to be reapplied??? We have already read posts of the front membrane panels with stuck switches, and a remedy to unstick them.

    I have the old board. The thermal paste does not appear to have 'dried out' as it will still come off on you fingers. No, not as easily as new heat sink compound when I seat a heat sink on a new CPU, but I have no reason to believe it was not effective.

    Also the failure mode was 'last time I used it several years ago it worked until I shut it off' which suggests it was not suffering from overheating at that time and 'did absolutely nothing from the instant I turned it on a month ago' which suggests it did not have time to overheat.

    There is little in the post which pinpoints the cause of the total failure of the miller machine not coming on other than which components needed replacement while the other machines were unaffected by the long layoff period. Did the very helpfull LWS / Miller support suggest reasons why the components failed the way they did and future precautions to take to prevent failures in the other circuit boards ???

    Good to see responsible people on both sides stepping up to an amicable solution to a nightmare, but what can the end user additionally do to keep this model unit performing reliably in the future? ??
    Other than what's in the owners manual, which a lot of end users Dont like to read.


    100% agreement on responsible vendors stepping up to the plate and helping me out. Certainly a model many other vendors could learn from.

    No suggestions about what may have caused the failure were made nor were any 'this is what you might try to prevent this in the future'. To be honest I did not expect any.

    I did not suspect operator error as it had not been 'operated' for several years and 'turn the machine on using the switch on the back' does not lend itself to alternative techniques.

    I did not suspect external environmental errors as I have had very few issues with electronics in the house in the 30 years I've lived in it.

    Do they need to additionally physically take the 135lb unit to the LWS for a fit for service checkup before the big game starts??

    I disconnected the welder from the argon, the cooler and the torch, removed it from the cart [ubiquitous engine hoist], put it in the neighbors truck and took it to the LWS. Reversed process when I brought it home.

    Yes PR is good from time to time , but I'm more interested in the post mortem analysis of what actually caused the total failure of the unit especially so soon after the factory burn in period after manufacture? It wasn't a DOA unit after all.

    ""but at the time this neophyte considered the extra to be an investment against the unknown.""
    -a lot of expensive unknowns with this unit hence the questions


    Yes, this singular issue was expensive but I feel that I made the right investment in 2008. A reputable LWS, a reputable manufacturer and a reputable machine was the correct long term choice for me.
    My comments in bold within the quote.

    Now maybe the work, health and family issues that prevented me from using the machine are behind me and I can actually use it!!

    Leave a comment:


  • maxstar300LX
    replied
    Yes - I too have been following with questions..

    Show some pics of the welds when you get time.


    As the post is fairly fresh I wanted to ask some questions as this was a model I was looking at for an upgrade..


    ""...Years ago I purchased a new Dynasty 350, SN# LJ030801L...""
    -which would make it a 2008 vintage?


    ""....Yesterday I actually wanted to use it so I turned it on, expecting it to come to life exactly as it was when I last used it. Regretfully absolutely nothing happened. The display did not come on nor did the chiller or any other signs of life...."""
    - I'm not sure but is this a pre-blue lightening unit?


    ""....I did check to ensure there was single phase power at the outlet. I plugged the Lincoln Power Mig 300 [also unused for several years] and it came to life without any problems. I then plugged the ESAB 875 plasma cutter [you guessed it, unused for several years] in and the power light came on...."""
    "...Lincoln Power Mig 300 & I then plugged the ESAB 875 plasma cutter ...."
    -both behave like reliable units


    """....It may be that PC5 is damaged or molex plugs on it are loose or corroded, maybe remove and reseat them. Molex plugs tend to corrode and not make contact if not powered on alot. Dielectric grease is whats normaly applied...."""
    -Suggested troubleshooting remedies no problems here


    """....PC5 handles all the auxillary control, hense the curiousity of no display. Even if the machine was on fire, there would still be a display. Just has me wondering if PC5's connectors are corroded..."""
    """.... Dynasty 350's are known for board probelms, and it would seem to be good customer...."""
    -was plug corrosion the real culprit as suggested earlier???


    """....LWS called today and have it running. They say it was a little under $2200 to repair. They say they had to replace the main power board [PS1 from memory], both modules and both of the main capacitors....""
    """...Now that it has power I can ask it for the hours and starts.


    Hours ... 3 hours and 52 minutes.
    Cycles ... 482


    I do not think this is an excessive amount of time or cycles but someone may be able to offer alternative thoughts....


    """...Anyway, at $2365 per hour [original cost of the TigRunner combination in February of 2008 plus this repair] it has turned into a rather expensive learning experience...."""


    -You forgot the Downtime of not welding on your project-supposing this was a welding business with hired labour, initial troubleshooting time , trips to the LWS time/ gas transportation etc for 3 hours and 52 minutes-Welding time.
    Yes it is expensive so what additional precautions / maintenance were you now advised to take so that it still works 5 years from now???


    """...Miller's suggestion was to install a new "Kit, Power Module and Interconnect Replacement". They also suggested that the two associated electrolytic capacitors also be replaced, "just in case". Then 'light a candle' and hope that nothing else down stream was toast...."""


    - so were the electrolytic capacitors the culprits ? What were their final values ? Borderline?? 2008-2014 is 6 years of almost no activity for the caps and other semiconductors and yes the caps do have a storage/ shelf life & working life too.
    My other question is if the thermal paste used between heat sinks and the hot semi conductors 'dry out' over time and need to be reapplied??? We have already read posts of the front membrane panels with stuck switches, and a remedy to unstick them.


    There is little in the post which pinpoints the cause of the total failure of the miller machine not coming on other than which components needed replacement while the other machines were unaffected by the long layoff period. Did the very helpfull LWS / Miller support suggest reasons why the components failed the way they did and future precautions to take to prevent failures in the other circuit boards ???
    Good to see responsible people on both sides stepping up to an amicable solution to a nightmare, but what can the end user additionally do to keep this model unit performing reliably in the future? ??
    Other than what's in the owners manual, which a lot of end users Dont like to read.


    Do they need to additionally physically take the 135lb unit to the LWS for a fit for service checkup before the big game starts??
    Yes PR is good from time to time , but I'm more interested in the post mortem analysis of what actually caused the total failure of the unit especially so soon after the factory burn in period after manufacture? It wasn't a DOA unit after all.

    ""but at the time this neophyte considered the extra to be an investment against the unknown.""
    -a lot of expensive unknowns with this unit hence the questions

    Leave a comment:


  • PlasmaGuy
    replied
    I have been following this thread hoping for some great news.
    I just got some !!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Tryagn5
    replied
    Customer service..

    Originally posted by arvidj View Post
    In the end this has turned into a perfect example of why you might want to purchase your equipment from a LWS and an well established manufacturer .

    Going against me was "out of warranty", "machine is 5 years old", "the machine was dead".

    The only thing I had going for me was "very little time on the machine"

    I had purchased the Miller Dynasty 350 from LWS [Toll Gas in Plymouth Minnesota] in 2008. Yes I paid a little more than I would have on the Web but at the time this neophyte considered the extra to be an investment against the unknown.

    This morning the Toll called and between Miller and Toll each providing some "Good Will Warranty Extension" they were able to bring the price of the repair down to what I though was a very fair and reasonable amount.

    In the end I have a working 350 in the garage and yes, health issues not withstanding, plan to significantly add to the 4 hours that are already on it.

    Thanks to everyone on this board for their help and guidance, and especially the team at Toll Gas and the local Miller Rep for making this work.

    Arvid
    This is why we pay more for a miller welder vs an everlast or cheap china nock off. Miller stood behind there product and did what a manufactor should. This should be an example to anyone who makes a captial investment why buying a product with excellant service is so important. Now i do hope in the next 5 years you will put more than 4 more hours on the machine!
    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • MinnesotaDave
    replied
    Excellent!

    Leave a comment:


  • arvidj
    replied
    Originally posted by arvidj View Post
    The regional rep just called and thinks he may be able to work something out. He is going to do some research and get back to me.

    Maybe I an not "On my own".
    In the end this has turned into a perfect example of why you might want to purchase your equipment from a LWS and an well established manufacturer .

    Going against me was "out of warranty", "machine is 5 years old", "the machine was dead".

    The only thing I had going for me was "very little time on the machine"

    I had purchased the Miller Dynasty 350 from LWS [Toll Gas in Plymouth Minnesota] in 2008. Yes I paid a little more than I would have on the Web but at the time this neophyte considered the extra to be an investment against the unknown.

    This morning the Toll called and between Miller and Toll each providing some "Good Will Warranty Extension" they were able to bring the price of the repair down to what I though was a very fair and reasonable amount.

    In the end I have a working 350 in the garage and yes, health issues not withstanding, plan to significantly add to the 4 hours that are already on it.

    Thanks to everyone on this board for their help and guidance, and especially the team at Toll Gas and the local Miller Rep for making this work.

    Arvid

    Leave a comment:


  • MinnesotaDave
    replied
    Originally posted by arvidj View Post
    The regional rep just called and thinks he may be able to work something out. He is going to do some research and get back to me.

    Maybe I an not "On my own".
    This is good news, good luck and I hope they hook you up

    Leave a comment:


  • cruizer
    replied
    I have my own shop, down turn in oil (which will likely last for a year) has caused many layoffs in oil country Alberta. And since I mainly repair rig welders may be a problem. I just don't want to be caught again like 2008. We'll see....

    Leave a comment:


  • old jupiter
    replied
    Originally posted by cruizer View Post
    Can't take the hassle much more so I'll be booking it from this job in a few months, so likely no more tech support from me.
    That is terrible news for us!! You say, "from this job;" I had a notion that you had your own shop, and were doing very well with it, with lots of big serious customers who were happy to deal with you and paid well and on time.

    "Say it ain't so, Joe!"

    Leave a comment:


  • arvidj
    replied
    The regional rep just called and thinks he may be able to work something out. He is going to do some research and get back to me.

    Maybe I an not "On my own".

    Leave a comment:


  • arvidj
    replied
    Cruizer,

    Thanks for all your support and insight. I do appreciate it.

    The Tech was in the same Catch-22 I was in. He could not determine how low the hours were because the machine was dead. He only had 'my word for the low hours' and that may not have been enough for him.

    He did tell me that he had to call Miller to discuss "what would be the best course of action" given that absolutely nothing on the machine worked. Miller's suggestion was to install a new "Kit, Power Module and Interconnect Replacement". They also suggested that the two associated electrolytic capacitors also be replaced, "just in case". Then 'light a candle' and hope that nothing else down stream was toast.

    Given that no one had any way of knowing that there were less than 4 hours on the machine I am sure the "is there anything we can do to help this poor guy out" never came up from either the tech or from Miller support.

    I am coming to the conclusion that "You can buy the best" but in the end "You are on your own".

    Leave a comment:


  • cruizer
    replied
    Really what we as MILLER CST techs generally do if the unit reads really low hours or maybe 6 months out of warranty is call Miller to see if there are any test boards available. If not then your hooped. The guys that have completed all the CST tests kinda know to call Miller first. Thats why in past posts It was a suggestion to only take machines to a shop with a CST Miller Tech.

    Reps are pretty much useless, and another problem would have been that a credit for parts can only be made to a shop that did the work, NOT to the end user.

    Leave a comment:


  • arvidj
    replied
    To save others who might be tempted to call Miller looking for some type of good will warranty extensions, don't bother.

    They will refer you to the Miller District Rep as "the only person who might be able to resolve this type of issue". They will give you the name and phone number of the Rep so you can give him a call. If you are lucky both the name and phone number will be correct. If you are not so lucky ... which seems to be 100% my case with this machine ... the name will be correct but the phone number will be "out of service".

    I eventually got the correct phone number from the LWS and was able to leave a message because the Rep was "in meetings from Monday thru Thursday and would not be able to return any call until ... possibly ... Friday".

    Regretfully this is reality and not just a very very bad dream,
    Arvid
    Last edited by arvidj; 01-16-2015, 09:15 AM.

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