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  • PP350 CAT Engine Water Temp

    I have a few Big Blue PipePro 350's with the CAT 1.5 engine in them and it seems they all run cold all the time, even in summer. I know it's been said that the Mitsubishi is the better engine for these machines, but we have a big CAT dealer in our city and no form of Mitsubishi shop anywhere around for repairs/warranty. Personally I love these machines and they have done everything we've asked them to do flawlessly.

    Last winter, they would only show just over 140F on the machines' temp gauge. We would put a heat gun on the water lines and the highest temp I can recall is right in the 155-160F mark. We experimented one day with one machine where we covered the rad with cardboard and had the block heater plugged in while it was working. The water temp only climbed slightly, around 165F. We do repair and fab work at our local CAT dealer and they've brought up a few ideas to get the temp up such as; install an isolation valve to keep the water circulating thru the engine but not the rad, install a clutch fan to only kick on when needed, and even to take the fan off entirely in the winter.

    Has anyone got any other ideas for this? They haven't shown any signs of wet stacking, is it something to really worry about? The only time we see any real heat is under heavy gouging or running a suitcase right at the 100% duty cycle limit. A Miller rep told me they should operate between 190F and 205F, so it got me thinking. .
    Last edited by TSBWeld; 11-25-2014, 01:54 PM.

  • #2
    Yes, they all run cold especially the Kubota, And, so what, is there a problem? You put anything in it to block the coolant, your warranty is null and void. Don't worry about it just run the darn thing....


    Not sure why a Miller rep, who likely knows squat about the inner workings of a diesel should say anything. hech, Cat knows little as well about this engine. Ask one what the fuel shutdown solinoid does. They will probably say that it turns on and off the fuel. Nope. it also acts as your idle solinoid.

    Also few to no cats need to know the flywheel speed via a calibrated magnetic pickup (only from Miller) This piles and you aren't starting, alotta problems with this pickup in the winter. and even with a new one, the instructions from Miller are wrong.
    Last edited by cruizer; 11-25-2014, 02:24 PM.

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    • #3
      PP350 CAT Engine Water Temp

      That info about the operating water temp came after a "quick phone call".

      But, like it's been stated, we haven't seen any real problems from them running cold. So like you said cruizer, we won't worry about it.

      Thank you sir! It's nice to hear from someone who actually knows what's going on with these units!

      Comment


      • #4
        not a cat diesel.....

        Originally posted by TSBWeld View Post
        That info about the operating water temp came after a "quick phone call".

        But, like it's been stated, we haven't seen any real problems from them running cold. So like you said cruizer, we won't worry about it.

        Thank you sir! It's nice to hear from someone who actually knows what's going on with these units!
        First i know that engine says cat, but it is a perkins, actually its a shirbura engine, perkins and shirbura built that engine, with shirbura doing most of the design. If it helps they normally run 170-180 in machines if its warm, if it cold your at 150-160. The biggest issue with this engine is to run 10w30 diesel engine oil and change it every 100hrs. They have changed the service schedule to 250hrs but orginally it was 100hrs. Also never, never use either in these engine, they will die! They are designed to be started with glow plugs, even in warm weather.
        Kevin
        Lincoln ranger 305g x2
        Ln25
        Miller spectrum 625
        Miller 30a spoolgun
        Wc115a
        Lincoln 210mp
        F550 imt service truck

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        • #5
          PP350 CAT Engine Water Temp

          First thing we noticed when we got the first one was that the engine looked pretty well exactly like the Perkins in our Lincoln 3D. Practically everything is in the same place. I mentioned it to a CAT tech and he commented that CAT probably had Perkins build it for them, maybe put some CAT electronics on it, and paint it yellow. I love how people who work on Diesel engines regularly try to surprise/disappoint me by constantly telling me "you know it's actually a Perkins?" Did you mean Shibaura? That part is new to me.

          Glow plugs are used to start them every time, just like every other diesel. They get plugged in as soon as there is a chill in the air, we don't own any ether. Instead of the 10W30, we run 0W40. We also run a dash of Howe's fuel conditioner at every fuel fill up.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TSBWeld View Post
            First thing we noticed when we got the first one was that the engine looked pretty well exactly like the Perkins in our Lincoln 3D. Practically everything is in the same place. I mentioned it to a CAT tech and he commented that CAT probably had Perkins build it for them, maybe put some CAT electronics on it, and paint it yellow. I love how people who work on Diesel engines regularly try to surprise/disappoint me by constantly telling me "you know it's actually a Perkins?" Did you mean Shibaura? That part is new to me.

            Glow plugs are used to start them every time, just like every other diesel. They get plugged in as soon as there is a chill in the air, we don't own any ether. Instead of the 10W30, we run 0W40. We also run a dash of Howe's fuel conditioner at every fuel fill up.
            Im not trying to suprize you simply stating a fact which might help you to do some research on that engine. Fact is cat had zero input on building that engine, cat bought perkins because it needed a small diesel engine for its equipment line. The engine was designed by shirbura, the pistons will say shirbura on the bottom casting, it shares many parts with the shirbura, it is superior to the kubota, if it is maintained properly. That engine uses a unique crankshaft design, where the crank slides into the block, it does not have main caps like a standard engine, the oil pump is high in the timing cover. It is built extremely tight, ie close tolerances, it willl not tolerate being run low on oil. Also the engine is designed to be started with glow plugs, shirbura built the engine with lower compression to aid in starting with smaller batteries, so it needs glow plug assit when cold. The larger brother of this engine is used in case skidsteers, new holland skid steers, new holland tractors. However go ahead and tell everyone its a cat, few actually have rebuilt this engine, so there clueless.
            Kevin
            Lincoln ranger 305g x2
            Ln25
            Miller spectrum 625
            Miller 30a spoolgun
            Wc115a
            Lincoln 210mp
            F550 imt service truck

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            • #7
              PP350 CAT Engine Water Temp

              Like I said, didn't know anything about the Shibaura involvement, so that's all really great info. Thank you!

              The next time someone says "you know it's actually a Perkins" I'll have a reply for them that I'm sure will take then by surprise. Haha.

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              • #8
                Fantastic information, Thought it was a weird one, as I've never seen some of this stuff before on any other Perk/Cat. Makes sense now that Cat didn't have a clue on several troublesome engines even with its code and serial#'s

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                • #9
                  We call them perkapillars.
                  Dynasty 400 wireless
                  Coolmate 3.5
                  Sw320 speedway
                  Ck flex lock 230
                  4 victor flow meters
                  2 Flametech Duel flowmeters
                  2 genuine miller torch buttons
                  A$$ loads of tungsten
                  XMT 350 CC/CV
                  S74DX feeder
                  Stick leads from here to China
                  A30 Spool gun
                  WC24
                  Langmuir crossfire hobby table
                  Everlast powerplasma 100 w hypertherm torch
                  Harris O/A
                  Pet raccoon
                  I'm just a peckerwood in the boonies with fancy welding equipment

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sledsports View Post
                    We call them perkapillars.
                    FWIW.... Perkins builds an excellent diesel engine...

                    I had a Perkins 4-108 as the diesel auxiliary in a sailboat... and it had no probs reliably pushing a 20K lb 41ft boat around...for many years .... they are pretty bulletproof... and I would think the Japanese (Shibura) influence a plus as well...for the new ones..
                    Last edited by H80N; 11-27-2014, 10:09 AM.
                    .

                    *******************************************
                    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                    My Blue Stuff:
                    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                    Dynasty 200DX
                    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                    Millermatic 200

                    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

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                    • #11
                      True, just up to the point, you want to get parts for them. Model, Code and serial engine #'s don't help much at Cat. As they don't seem to have a clue, on a Shibura modeled engine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                        True, just up to the point, you want to get parts for them. Model, Code and serial engine #'s don't help much at Cat. As they don't seem to have a clue, on a Shibura modeled engine.
                        Might be easier to find the right parts by talking to the guys behind the Perkins parts counter??

                        http://www.perkins.com/cda/files/686...U%20PN1900.pdf

                        just a thought...
                        .

                        *******************************************
                        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                        My Blue Stuff:
                        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                        Dynasty 200DX
                        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                        Millermatic 200

                        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                          True, just up to the point, you want to get parts for them. Model, Code and serial engine #'s don't help much at Cat. As they don't seem to have a clue, on a Shibura modeled engine.

                          Best place for shirbura and perkins parts. Jt engine service 15171 Freeland Ave N, Hugo, MN 55038 (651) 429-9012. He is excellant, and has engines in stock. Great guy to.
                          Kevin
                          Lincoln ranger 305g x2
                          Ln25
                          Miller spectrum 625
                          Miller 30a spoolgun
                          Wc115a
                          Lincoln 210mp
                          F550 imt service truck

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            PP350 CAT Engine Water Temp

                            Will definitely be keep all this in mind for future use! Love learning things like this. Thanks again!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by H80N View Post
                              FWIW.... Perkins builds an excellent diesel engine...

                              I had a Perkins 4-108 as the diesel auxiliary in a sailboat... and it had no probs reliably pushing a 20K lb 41ft boat around...for many years .... they are pretty bulletproof... and I would think the Japanese (Shibura) influence a plus as well...for the new ones..
                              Yes they do build a fine engine.
                              Dynasty 400 wireless
                              Coolmate 3.5
                              Sw320 speedway
                              Ck flex lock 230
                              4 victor flow meters
                              2 Flametech Duel flowmeters
                              2 genuine miller torch buttons
                              A$$ loads of tungsten
                              XMT 350 CC/CV
                              S74DX feeder
                              Stick leads from here to China
                              A30 Spool gun
                              WC24
                              Langmuir crossfire hobby table
                              Everlast powerplasma 100 w hypertherm torch
                              Harris O/A
                              Pet raccoon
                              I'm just a peckerwood in the boonies with fancy welding equipment

                              Comment

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