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  • #16
    well.....

    Originally posted by Dobermann View Post
    Let me ask a stupid question: If you "ported" that head in place, where did the shavings from the rotary burr go? Into the engine? Yikes!!

    If that's really what happened, then how to weld up the hole in the head is the very least of your worries. You'll have to pull the head anyway to get the crap out of the passage way and combustion chamber. Your engine won't like metal shavings one bit!

    Throw the head away and get a new/used one and stop screwing around with the porting. The guys who designed it knew what they were doing and might possibly have known more about flow through the ports than you do.
    First i beleive the orginal poster was port matching his exhaust ports to the header gasket and got carried away. Also aluminum shaving inside a gas engine combustion chambers is not such a issue people think, first if both the intake and exhaust valves are closed none will enter the chamber, simply by pressurrizing the intake will blow them out the exhaust port. If they do enter the chamber by removing the plug and cranking the engine will blow them out, aluminum shaving will dissapear once the chamber fires, then they get pushed out on the exhaust stroke.
    How do i know this, countless ford modular engine spark plug blowouts and replacement, theres always some material which makes it into the engine. Also we used to open aluminum intake throttle bodies opening up with out removing the intake.
    Now to the head repair, weldable in place, doubtful! However what does the drain port look like? Could it be drilled from the top, threaded and a insert used to seal the hole. If you do this besure to plug the oil return passage before drilling, aluminum shaving in an oil pan will be sucked up by the oil pump, and it will destroy it instantly!
    Kevin
    Lincoln ranger 305g x2
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    • #17
      This is an exercise in futility. Building up paper-thin aluminum inside of a very space-restricted spot is hard enough without the back side of said paper-thin aluminum having spent years in hot motor oil which can't be cleaned off while the exposed side has aluminum oxide grinding particles imbedded in it. When you get a puddle going, it will look like you tried using a 7018 rod on it. When you're an old man, you'll wish you had back the 10-20 hours of good time you spent trying to weld this.

      The head is scrap. Save it for running practice beads on an area you can effectively clean.

      80% of failures are from 20% of causes
      Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
      "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
      "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
      "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

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      • #18
        Its amazing how easily the nay sayers get distracted.

        If I wanted Automotive advice I'd go to a Car Forum. You better believe I did not ask about welding it over there.

        I did not get a hole the size of kansas while die grinding the exhaust port. It got paper thin. I saw the crack and pushed out the piece with my finger. And almost cried. There are no chips anywhere other than the exhaust port which will get washed out before i'm done. Its already been washed with laquer thinner. And its the exhaust port, It can blow it self out.

        The good news is i already ground off all the oxide.

        I picked up a long tig cup and setup the area with a back purge.
        Pyrex tig cups are coming in the mail if I cannot see well enough.

        I will adjust the wave balance to max cleaning and burn back the edge.

        Right now the hole is smaller than a dime. After I burn back the edge I'll evaluate build up or patching the material. I will need 3 hands to tack the patch in place. Aluminum does not like to fuse.

        Removing the head does not change the fact that i'm still sticking the torch down a 1.5" hole. There is plenty of elbow room. I'm just likely to go through a lot of tungsten if the filler balls and drops on the electrode.

        My strategy is weld it, grind smooth, weld a cover pass to ensure good fusion.
        Smooth the port, But not too much.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by coronan View Post
          Its amazing how easily the nay sayers get distracted.

          If I wanted Automotive advice I'd go to a Car Forum. You better believe I did not ask about welding it over there.

          I did not get a hole the size of kansas while die grinding the exhaust port. It got paper thin. I saw the crack and pushed out the piece with my finger. And almost cried. There are no chips anywhere other than the exhaust port which will get washed out before i'm done. Its already been washed with laquer thinner. And its the exhaust port, It can blow it self out.

          The good news is i already ground off all the oxide.

          I picked up a long tig cup and setup the area with a back purge.
          Pyrex tig cups are coming in the mail if I cannot see well enough.

          I will adjust the wave balance to max cleaning and burn back the edge.

          Right now the hole is smaller than a dime. After I burn back the edge I'll evaluate build up or patching the material. I will need 3 hands to tack the patch in place. Aluminum does not like to fuse.

          Removing the head does not change the fact that i'm still sticking the torch down a 1.5" hole. There is plenty of elbow room. I'm just likely to go through a lot of tungsten if the filler balls and drops on the electrode.

          My strategy is weld it, grind smooth, weld a cover pass to ensure good fusion.
          Smooth the port, But not too much.
          i figured you were port matching. Although you might want to do a search on velocity vs size of port. Very little is gained, actually can be lost about port matching to the exhaust header unless the engine is extremely modified. Headers produce there power by balancing exhaust pulses and by reducing the manifold restrictions. Also if you fail to seal that hole you will be pressurizing the crankcase with exhaust gases.
          kevin
          Lincoln ranger 305g x2
          Ln25
          Miller spectrum 625
          Miller 30a spoolgun
          Wc115a
          Lincoln 210mp
          F550 imt service truck

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          • #20
            It's amazing how people come here ask for advice, get good advice from people who actually have done this/do this for a living, then criticize the responses they receive. Post a picture of your completed project after you weld it up. It will be very surprised if you can get it to work based upon your questions and the prep work done.

            The real killer is the contaminated aluminum and being in too awkward of a position, but I will be the first to say nice work if you can get her done.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
              It's amazing how people come here ask for advice, get good advice from people who actually have done this/do this for a living, then criticize the responses they receive. Post a picture of your completed project after you weld it up. It will be very surprised if you can get it to work based upon your questions and the prep work done.

              The real killer is the contaminated aluminum and being in too awkward of a position, but I will be the first to say nice work if you can get her done.
              Sometimes it just ain't as easy as it looks in the beginning...

              would not be surprised if there were not some significant challenges to that project...

              am very curious as to how you can draw an arc inside the port and feed filler without taking off the head and removing the valve... that is a trick I would love to learn..
              maneuvering both in the same hole will be tough.. feeding one from each direction is fun enough..

              the experience and practice will be a beneficial learning exercise in any event...
              Last edited by H80N; 11-13-2014, 04:54 PM.
              .

              *******************************************
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              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

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              • #22
                There is a lot of Automotive types here!!
                I will tell you this..... there is a lot more welders that build there own cars etc. than mechanics who can weld worth a crap!!
                I've personally owned 2 automotive machine shops and built and owned a NASCAR Grand American Late Model asphalt car and numerous street rods and machines etc.
                When you try to limit our advice it simply means you are fishing until you get the answer you wanna hear!!
                Why not simply do what you wanna do anyways and then post your results....good or bad??
                And I could weld your head and get paid quite nicely if I so chose to.
                But even I wouldn't have done it on the car....that is just simply way too freekin' crude

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                  There is a lot of Automotive types here!!
                  I will tell you this..... there is a lot more welders that build there own cars etc. than mechanics who can weld worth a crap!!
                  I've personally owned 2 automotive machine shops and built and owned a NASCAR Grand American Late Model asphalt car and numerous street rods and machines etc.
                  When you try to limit our advice it simply means you are fishing until you get the answer you wanna hear!!
                  Why not simply do what you wanna do anyways and then post your results....good or bad??
                  And I could weld your head and get paid quite nicely if I so chose to.
                  But even I wouldn't have done it on the car....that is just simply way too freekin' crude
                  I would argue as a mechanic there are some very good mechanic welders out there, however i work on heavy equipment and welding is something which is stressed in my job. In the automotive side welding is nota skill which is pursued or done in many shops. In fact Ford removed my v10 engine from the truck to get the broken exhaust manifold studs out even after i offered to weld them out, if it had not been a warranty issue i would have done it myself. The automotive business has turned into a parts changing business with components being changed not fixed.
                  Now to the orginal poster, i believe he will fail at his attempt to repair it, but he certainly does not have anything to loose. I also think if he does repair it, he bettar be sure his remaining ports are not paper thin, if they are, hope his engine is tuned very well, because one lean tune and its going to eat holes in that casting.
                  Kevin
                  Lincoln ranger 305g x2
                  Ln25
                  Miller spectrum 625
                  Miller 30a spoolgun
                  Wc115a
                  Lincoln 210mp
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Blaise Pascal, "Pensées" circa 1670
                    We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others.
                    Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

                    80% of failures are from 20% of causes
                    Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
                    "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
                    "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
                    "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

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                    • #25
                      We do however have a MOTORSPORTS forum here...

                      that MIGHT just have some useful info on this situation...

                      http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...mp-Restoration

                      One infernal combustion engine having structural similarities to others and all..
                      .

                      *******************************************
                      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                      My Blue Stuff:
                      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200DX
                      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                      Millermatic 200

                      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        All this back and forth is just time wasting. The guy asking the question really doesn't have any room to nay-say the guys that give advice....after all he DID ask and he should not get his shorts all in a bunch over the answers. I can understand both ways....a LOT of cylinder heads have been welded and a lot of them have been ruined, too. (I have done it, but then I have also made my share of bird crap, too!) One bit of advice to the OP...take all the advice these guys give you and learn from it, then if you are bound and determined to give it a shot, DO SO! Throughout history three have been a lot of guys that did things that everyone else told them couldn't be don. It is a good thing that the Wright Brothers didn't heed the nay sayers and it is a pretty good thin that Neil Armstrong never gave any head to those that said man would never walk on the mood.

                        I have (and so have lots of others) learned a lot of things while trying to do the impossible (or what others told them was impossible!).....sometimes you get the bull and sometimes he gets you.....but YOU GOTTA TRY!! No one ever accomplished anything by sitting on the couch and crying!

                        Also, if you manage to get this done right, I, among others, would sure like to hear how you did it and see some pictures!!
                        Don J
                        Reno, NV

                        Never pick a fight with an old guy. Old guys are too smart to fight and get hurt. They'll just kill you and get it over with.

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                        • #27
                          I think the key to doing a weld on that head would be to remove it, clean the area and then preheat it completely in an oven to approximately 250 degrees F.

                          I have not welded a car head, but I've done numerous Harley-Davidson cylinder heads. I would always have the head off of the engine and do the cleaning and preheat, measuring the heat with a wax heat stick. I have a large powder coat oven that I use for such heating tasks. I was usually replacing broken exhaust stubs on Harley Panheads and more often, welding up stripped exhaust bolt holes and broken cylinder fins.

                          Even with the head off and proper preparation and heating, I see the OP's problem as a daunting task due to the proposed stickout. Possibly a different torch that would be able to get closer to the ares would help.

                          I also wonder if there might be a way to MIG weld it, although I doubt that a spool gun would fit.

                          I'm not saying not to try to weld it. The OP has nothing to lose IMHO.
                          Last edited by Synchroman; 11-18-2014, 09:05 PM.
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