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Using lincoln 305g efi to power hydraulic pump....

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  • Using lincoln 305g efi to power hydraulic pump....

    So im building another service truck and i was hoping to get away from pto powered cranes, as the idle/dpf issue is something i wish to avoid. My new crane is an imt 2020, 5k crane, which currently is electric over hydraulic, this imt crane unlike many also can be run with a pto pump, which increases speed, and gives the option for hydraulic outriggers. Most people choose either pto or electric, i wish to have both. Electric for inside pto for outside, this is the easy part.
    Now im hoping to use a lincoln 305g efi to power the hydraulic pump, lucky for me kohlers can run small hydraulic pumps off the front of the flywheel. Also the 305 engine placement makes it easy to build a drive plate, now im hoping to be able to run a 5-6 gpm pump at around 2300 psi, which would require around 8-9hp.
    My general concerns is the speed of the engine, first i hope to run the engine around 1500 rpms, im confindent in building an engine controller, not sure if the welder will like it, second i must be able to control start and stop the welder via the crane remote, again seems easy to tap into the wiring. My biggest concerns comes from the hydraulic pump dragging down the engine while its at full speed. Now i will never run the crane and welder together, but the hydraulic pump will eat some hp, even when it is in bypass mode, ie pump returned to tank. I have thought about an electric clutch for the hydraulic pump, but it would be difficult to find one to adapt to front drive setup.
    Also i know this will likely kill my warranty, which i dont care.
    Lincoln ranger 305g x2
    Ln25
    Miller spectrum 625
    Miller 30a spoolgun
    Wc115a
    Lincoln 210mp
    F550 imt service truck

  • #2
    No, it won't like it at all. and thats ALOT of $$$ coin to play around with, why not get a dedicated engine for the pump, makes way more sence. Besides the efi engine is 25 horse. Are you planning on welding with this thing as well, cause high idle will be 3750 ish rpm, with low idle at 2200 ish rpm. I go off frequency and that would be 38 low and 62.5 high.


    Warranty is no big deal, I mean the Chopper is only $1300+ and the main a mere $1500 for you to buy. You won't have much if any torque at 1500 rpm anyways. Just not designed that way. EFI will want to maintain at least 2200 rpm minimum. So you'll need to reprogram that.


    Why not be like the rest of the hydraulic sign guys and run an electrical motor to the hydraulic drive off the 230 single phase. Most of them run Trailblazers and Bobcats. I maintain thier stuff. Never ever seen a welder running a hyraulic drive, just seems like just one more thing to break down.
    Last edited by cruizer; 11-04-2014, 05:06 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by cruizer View Post
      No, it won't like it at all. and thats ALOT of $$$ coin to play around with, why not get a dedicated engine for the pump, makes way more sence. Besides the efi engine is 25 horse. Are you planning on welding with this thing as well, cause high idle will be 3750 ish rpm, with low idle at 2200 ish rpm. I go off frequency and that would be 38 low and 62.5 high.


      Warranty is no big deal, I mean the Chopper is only $1300+ and the main a mere $1500 for you to buy. You won't have much if any torque at 1500 rpm anyways. Just not designed that way. EFI will want to maintain at least 2200 rpm minimum. So you'll need to reprogram that.


      Why not be like the rest of the hydraulic sign guys and run an electrical motor to the hydraulic drive off the 230 single phase. Most of them run Trailblazers and Bobcats. I maintain thier stuff. Never ever seen a welder running a hyraulic drive, just seems like just one more thing to break down.
      I did not want to weld while running the hydraulic pump. Simply wanted to use the hp of the welder to turn the hyd pump. I did think about using the 230volt side of welder to power a electrical pump, but was worried about the reliablity of the electical pump, plus its nice to vary the speed of the engine to give proportnal speed to the crane, also electrical motor and pump assembly are large and take up room, simple hyd pump mounted to back of a 305g would be compact.
      Im actually waiting for kohler to give me the hp rating of the motor based on rpm, and the max hp the front flywheel pto can support, im tempted to use a larger hyd pump, and allow the welder to power the hyd pump at full rpm, if the gpm is right, i might use it to drive both the crane and compressor. Also i did find many electrical clutches which would disconnect the hyd pump when not used, im leaning towards this. Just not sure how much side load the kohler engine can take in the front!
      Lincoln ranger 305g x2
      Ln25
      Miller spectrum 625
      Miller 30a spoolgun
      Wc115a
      Lincoln 210mp
      F550 imt service truck

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, you have to cut a hole in the case cover, can't remove it. A GTX, might be a better bet as there is no engine cover. Still I service probably 20 sign and maintenance companys with hydraulic cranes. Most are electric/Hydraulic, or pto driven on some of the service trucks with zero problems. And all are running Miller TB 302/s and Bobcat 250's. This is oil country, and I think I would have seen a welder with a hydraulicly powered drive in front of it. I believe the KISS principle applies here. Keep It Simple Stupid. Wholly molly, just to pull the machine for service would be a nightmare. Also have to look at the direction of the drive. Pumps can only be driven in one direction.

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        • #5
          service...

          Originally posted by cruizer View Post
          Well, you have to cut a hole in the case cover, can't remove it. A GTX, might be a better bet as there is no engine cover. Still I service probably 20 sign and maintenance companys with hydraulic cranes. Most are electric/Hydraulic, or pto driven on some of the service trucks with zero problems. And all are running Miller TB 302/s and Bobcat 250's. This is oil country, and I think I would have seen a welder with a hydraulicly powered drive in front of it. I believe the KISS principle applies here. Keep It Simple Stupid. Wholly molly, just to pull the machine for service would be a nightmare. Also have to look at the direction of the drive. Pumps can only be driven in one direction.
          Yup a hole in the case would be needed. Needs to be a 300amp machine. Also pump only requires 2 lines, suction and pressure. Removing the welder would take about a minute extra. Pump would stay on. Im sure im going to build this once i get an idea in my head it tends to get built.
          Kevin
          Lincoln ranger 305g x2
          Ln25
          Miller spectrum 625
          Miller 30a spoolgun
          Wc115a
          Lincoln 210mp
          F550 imt service truck

          Comment


          • #6
            Kevin,

            Something to consider if you mount the pump to the welder: what happens when the ranger goes down and has to get repaired or replaced? An electric over hydraulic would just plug into the full-kva plug on the next engine drive.

            I do like your idea though. It is a good workaround for these ridiculous exhaust systems and non-idle diesel engines.
            MillerMatic 251
            Maxstar 150 STH
            Cutmaster 42
            Victor Journeyman OA

            A rockcrawler, er money pit, in progress...

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            • #7
              well....

              Originally posted by elvis View Post
              Kevin,

              Something to consider if you mount the pump to the welder: what happens when the ranger goes down and has to get repaired or replaced? An electric over hydraulic would just plug into the full-kva plug on the next engine drive.

              I do like your idea though. It is a good workaround for these ridiculous exhaust systems and non-idle diesel engines.
              Still have the orginal electric over hyd pump which will be used to power the crane in the shop. See the electric over hyd pump mounts in the tank, with a simple solenoid valve the crane pressure supply will be switched from pto....via hi speed, to slow but quiet and smoke free electric! Basically in the winter i use the crane a lot in my shop, during the nice months its used outside.
              My current truck 2014 f550, is completely hydraulic pto driven, so far im at 28k miles and put 920hrs on the truck , of that 456 are idle! However this is a company truck, and i dont have to pay to fix it, so far it has been good, but it will be replaced in 2 years, my current employer has a 3 year and out program, however trucks i own, i keep. I want to avoid idle on any dpf trucks, from the fleet of 100 or so we own, the ones which are worked are great, ones which are babied and idled are aweful.
              Kevin
              Kevin
              Lincoln ranger 305g x2
              Ln25
              Miller spectrum 625
              Miller 30a spoolgun
              Wc115a
              Lincoln 210mp
              F550 imt service truck

              Comment

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