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  • snowbird
    replied
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwY3EATCPc

    Should we understand we'll be safer in a glued boat than a riveted one?

    Amazing but...Thank's i'll stay on the beach.

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by WillieB View Post
    Thanks H80N! The link was great and it led to lots of videos on the subject of my favorite car of all time, the ***iest car ever built, the Jaguar E Type. Mine that I let slip away was a 1968 two top roadster with 4.2. An incredible car!

    That was a dirty word?!!!
    Willie

    here is another good illustration of using TIG butt welds and metalfinishing to
    achieve a seamless patch...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDiH4nRmCzY

    no bondo no foolishness... NOT a procedure you are likely to invest the time and energy in on a run of the mill rust or collision repair...
    BUT on a restoration or custom project it is often the way to go..

    Leave a comment:


  • WillieB
    replied
    Thanks H80N! The link was great and it led to lots of videos on the subject of my favorite car of all time, the ***iest car ever built, the Jaguar E Type. Mine that I let slip away was a 1968 two top roadster with 4.2. An incredible car!

    That was a dirty word?!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Tryagn5
    replied
    butt weld....

    Originally posted by 'Stang View Post
    I agree. I have welded many repair panels in cars. I restored a '70 Challenger with a lot of rusted quarter panels. At that time I didn't have a tig. I used a mig with .023 wire. A lot of tacks and very short beads-to prevent distortion. Tig is much better.
    There certainly are times where butt welds of panels will have to be done. My simple point is in areas where it does not...ie rear quarter replacement, crimping the material first makes for a cleaner repair. Yes it can be butt welded. However heat becomes a concern also warpage. For the novice body man which the op is it will be much easier to do if crimped first.
    Truth be told im a beliver in the glue method. If rust is a concern there is not a bettar method to solve it. Fyi many new cars are glued together.
    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • 'Stang
    replied
    Originally posted by H80N View Post
    You are certainly welcome to your opinions and preferences..

    But that will not erase the fact that thousands of people are probably MIG butt welding body panel patches every day..

    I myself prefer to TIG weld that type of butt welded patch...

    that will not change the fact that there are many folks MIG butt welding sheet metal with excellent results...

    To each his or her own...
    I agree. I have welded many repair panels in cars. I restored a '70 Challenger with a lot of rusted quarter panels. At that time I didn't have a tig. I used a mig with .023 wire. A lot of tacks and very short beads-to prevent distortion. Tig is much better.

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    TIG Sheetmetal Butt Welding

    Originally posted by WillieB View Post
    A fellow not far from me is brilliant. He once showed off a bunch of fenders from C. 1940 cars he was doing for a customer. Each had had a small section replaced where it had rusted out. I was only able to tell where the new steel was by the fact it wasn't pitted. Shape inside and out was flawless, no filler needed except to fill the pits after sandblasting.


    I'd give my left arm to spend a week with him to learn his secrets.
    Willie

    this is a good illustration of the technique... just takes some care and practice...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW4qn2WRg4w

    Leave a comment:


  • WillieB
    replied
    A fellow not far from me is brilliant. He once showed off a bunch of fenders from C. 1940 cars he was doing for a customer. Each had had a small section replaced where it had rusted out. I was only able to tell where the new steel was by the fact it wasn't pitted. Shape inside and out was flawless, no filler needed except to fill the pits after sandblasting.


    I'd give my left arm to spend a week with him to learn his secrets.

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by WillieB View Post
    H80N;
    I wish you would explain the process for butt welding body panels. My experience with it was mostly in my youth. With one exception all were done with acetylene. Even taking great pains to avoid it, distortion was my nemesis. More recently, the MIG vs. TIG debate comes up. TIG is easier, but I had heard it caused too much hardening. Recently I heard the opposite, that MIG caused more hardening. What is the truth?

    Bill
    Willie

    MIG butt welding with standard er70-S6 or even the so caller "Easy Grind" wires are high carbon and... leave you with a very hard weld and narrow HAZ... so you need to make sure that the panels are properly shaped and aligned before you skip weld them together...because you will not be able to work the weld area much...without some brittleness..
    even so I have seen guys produce excellent results with the technique

    I personally prefer the TIG for that... you have a wider HAZ...flatter bead... can use a softer wire and can form and planish the panel a whole lot more before you have to re anneal it....
    it is a lot like the "Hammer Welding" technique with Oxy Fuel that used to be the panelbeating standard years ago...a little bit of hammer on dolly to keep things on track..

    On both of these techniques... the fact that almost all auto panels have some crown will help to control warpage... you will still have to be quick and skip around to prevent heat buildup..
    Last edited by H80N; 09-10-2014, 09:15 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • WillieB
    replied
    H80N;
    I wish you would explain the process for butt welding body panels. My experience with it was mostly in my youth. With one exception all were done with acetylene. Even taking great pains to avoid it, distortion was my nemesis. More recently, the MIG vs. TIG debate comes up. TIG is easier, but I had heard it caused too much hardening. Recently I heard the opposite, that MIG caused more hardening. What is the truth?

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • JSFAB
    replied
    Bondo is wonderful stuff. Try it sometime.

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    Glue and lap welded joints certainly have their place...

    But in an automotive restoration there are certain places where the best answer is a butt joint... many times you must make BOTH sides of a joint appear seamless ... where a lap would not be acceptable...

    so a butt welded joint...planished flat.. whether TIG, MIG or Oxy-Fuel welded is the answer...

    at least in my little world....

    So... I guess I will hang on to my blue boxes...

    Leave a comment:


  • Doughboyracer
    replied
    I told you....

    ...this was going to get GOOD!

    Leave a comment:


  • nfinch86
    replied
    Originally posted by WillieB View Post
    Anybody want to buy a half dozen welders? I'm getting some glue!
    LoL.

    Leave a comment:


  • WillieB
    replied
    Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
    When I made ambulance doors the outer skin was bonded to the inner frame with "Lord's" brand glue.
    It was a double barrel-two part product that came out of a single nozzle that you could see thru and watch it mix together.
    It you made a mistake and had to take it apart you needed to decide which part you needed to save, because you had to destroy one to save the other.... The glue was simply that strong.
    Anybody want to buy a half dozen welders? I'm getting some glue!

    Leave a comment:


  • FusionKing
    replied
    When I made ambulance doors the outer skin was bonded to the inner frame with "Lord's" brand glue.
    It was a double barrel-two part product that came out of a single nozzle that you could see thru and watch it mix together.
    It you made a mistake and had to take it apart you needed to decide which part you needed to save, because you had to destroy one to save the other.... The glue was simply that strong.

    Leave a comment:

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