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  • #16
    I told you....

    ...this was going to get GOOD!
    MillerMatic 211 Auto-set w/MVP
    Just For Home Projects.

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    • #17
      Glue and lap welded joints certainly have their place...

      But in an automotive restoration there are certain places where the best answer is a butt joint... many times you must make BOTH sides of a joint appear seamless ... where a lap would not be acceptable...

      so a butt welded joint...planished flat.. whether TIG, MIG or Oxy-Fuel welded is the answer...

      at least in my little world....

      So... I guess I will hang on to my blue boxes...
      .

      *******************************************
      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

      My Blue Stuff:
      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
      Dynasty 200DX
      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
      Millermatic 200

      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

      Comment


      • #18
        Bondo is wonderful stuff. Try it sometime.
        Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

        Comment


        • #19
          H80N;
          I wish you would explain the process for butt welding body panels. My experience with it was mostly in my youth. With one exception all were done with acetylene. Even taking great pains to avoid it, distortion was my nemesis. More recently, the MIG vs. TIG debate comes up. TIG is easier, but I had heard it caused too much hardening. Recently I heard the opposite, that MIG caused more hardening. What is the truth?

          Bill
          Dynasty 280DX
          Bobcat 250
          MM252
          Spool gun
          Twentieth Century 295
          Twentieth Century 295 AC
          Marquette spot welder
          Smith torches

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by WillieB View Post
            H80N;
            I wish you would explain the process for butt welding body panels. My experience with it was mostly in my youth. With one exception all were done with acetylene. Even taking great pains to avoid it, distortion was my nemesis. More recently, the MIG vs. TIG debate comes up. TIG is easier, but I had heard it caused too much hardening. Recently I heard the opposite, that MIG caused more hardening. What is the truth?

            Bill
            Willie

            MIG butt welding with standard er70-S6 or even the so caller "Easy Grind" wires are high carbon and... leave you with a very hard weld and narrow HAZ... so you need to make sure that the panels are properly shaped and aligned before you skip weld them together...because you will not be able to work the weld area much...without some brittleness..
            even so I have seen guys produce excellent results with the technique

            I personally prefer the TIG for that... you have a wider HAZ...flatter bead... can use a softer wire and can form and planish the panel a whole lot more before you have to re anneal it....
            it is a lot like the "Hammer Welding" technique with Oxy Fuel that used to be the panelbeating standard years ago...a little bit of hammer on dolly to keep things on track..

            On both of these techniques... the fact that almost all auto panels have some crown will help to control warpage... you will still have to be quick and skip around to prevent heat buildup..
            Last edited by H80N; 09-10-2014, 09:15 PM.
            .

            *******************************************
            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

            My Blue Stuff:
            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
            Dynasty 200DX
            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
            Millermatic 200

            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

            Comment


            • #21
              A fellow not far from me is brilliant. He once showed off a bunch of fenders from C. 1940 cars he was doing for a customer. Each had had a small section replaced where it had rusted out. I was only able to tell where the new steel was by the fact it wasn't pitted. Shape inside and out was flawless, no filler needed except to fill the pits after sandblasting.


              I'd give my left arm to spend a week with him to learn his secrets.
              Dynasty 280DX
              Bobcat 250
              MM252
              Spool gun
              Twentieth Century 295
              Twentieth Century 295 AC
              Marquette spot welder
              Smith torches

              Comment


              • #22
                TIG Sheetmetal Butt Welding

                Originally posted by WillieB View Post
                A fellow not far from me is brilliant. He once showed off a bunch of fenders from C. 1940 cars he was doing for a customer. Each had had a small section replaced where it had rusted out. I was only able to tell where the new steel was by the fact it wasn't pitted. Shape inside and out was flawless, no filler needed except to fill the pits after sandblasting.


                I'd give my left arm to spend a week with him to learn his secrets.
                Willie

                this is a good illustration of the technique... just takes some care and practice...

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW4qn2WRg4w
                .

                *******************************************
                The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                My Blue Stuff:
                Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                Dynasty 200DX
                Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                Millermatic 200

                TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by H80N View Post
                  You are certainly welcome to your opinions and preferences..

                  But that will not erase the fact that thousands of people are probably MIG butt welding body panel patches every day..

                  I myself prefer to TIG weld that type of butt welded patch...

                  that will not change the fact that there are many folks MIG butt welding sheet metal with excellent results...

                  To each his or her own...
                  I agree. I have welded many repair panels in cars. I restored a '70 Challenger with a lot of rusted quarter panels. At that time I didn't have a tig. I used a mig with .023 wire. A lot of tacks and very short beads-to prevent distortion. Tig is much better.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    butt weld....

                    Originally posted by 'Stang View Post
                    I agree. I have welded many repair panels in cars. I restored a '70 Challenger with a lot of rusted quarter panels. At that time I didn't have a tig. I used a mig with .023 wire. A lot of tacks and very short beads-to prevent distortion. Tig is much better.
                    There certainly are times where butt welds of panels will have to be done. My simple point is in areas where it does not...ie rear quarter replacement, crimping the material first makes for a cleaner repair. Yes it can be butt welded. However heat becomes a concern also warpage. For the novice body man which the op is it will be much easier to do if crimped first.
                    Truth be told im a beliver in the glue method. If rust is a concern there is not a bettar method to solve it. Fyi many new cars are glued together.
                    Kevin
                    Lincoln ranger 305g x2
                    Ln25
                    Miller spectrum 625
                    Miller 30a spoolgun
                    Wc115a
                    Lincoln 210mp
                    F550 imt service truck

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Thanks H80N! The link was great and it led to lots of videos on the subject of my favorite car of all time, the ***iest car ever built, the Jaguar E Type. Mine that I let slip away was a 1968 two top roadster with 4.2. An incredible car!

                      That was a dirty word?!!!
                      Dynasty 280DX
                      Bobcat 250
                      MM252
                      Spool gun
                      Twentieth Century 295
                      Twentieth Century 295 AC
                      Marquette spot welder
                      Smith torches

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by WillieB View Post
                        Thanks H80N! The link was great and it led to lots of videos on the subject of my favorite car of all time, the ***iest car ever built, the Jaguar E Type. Mine that I let slip away was a 1968 two top roadster with 4.2. An incredible car!

                        That was a dirty word?!!!
                        Willie

                        here is another good illustration of using TIG butt welds and metalfinishing to
                        achieve a seamless patch...

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDiH4nRmCzY

                        no bondo no foolishness... NOT a procedure you are likely to invest the time and energy in on a run of the mill rust or collision repair...
                        BUT on a restoration or custom project it is often the way to go..
                        .

                        *******************************************
                        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                        My Blue Stuff:
                        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                        Dynasty 200DX
                        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                        Millermatic 200

                        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwY3EATCPc

                          Should we understand we'll be safer in a glued boat than a riveted one?

                          Amazing but...Thank's i'll stay on the beach.

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