Penetration?

[hankj]

OK guys, get me straight. I know that to weld mild steel thicker than my MM135 is rated for, I HAVE TO PREPARE THE JOINT. I have a few pieces of 1/4 x 6" flat stock; for a butt joint I ground approx. a 30 deg. angle on each side with a 1/16" root opening and began what I expected to be a multi-pass weld. What happened is I filled the joint completly on the first pass without sufficient penetration - I was able to break the weld in a vise with a 2# ball pein hammer.

I made up another set - this time I increased travel speed and that seemed to work - there was room for additional passes, but I still was able to break the weld (actually, it appears that it was NOT a weld!).

I've been able to weld 3/16 at these same settings on a single pass without preparation, and have not broken the joint in the vise.

Settings: Voltage dial = 9, wire spssd dial = 30, gas = CO2 @ 20 cfh.

Comments?

Thanks,

Hank

[Paul Seaman]

Hankj: here is my dab of help, do a weave with a 1-2 count on each side of the weld and slow down a bit patience not speed, multi-pass is a process that requires a slow down. If it is not penetrating then the heat is not getting into the metal, so push wire into the weld by counting 1-2 on each side of the weld before making a foreward movement like sewing sort-of there are a lot of different weaves that can work, z,half moon, are the ones I use most. This is a little on the practice and watch the puddle form. 10 to 1 there wassn't much puddle formed before you moved down the weld on your first try, watch for it to form before moving on, yes you can build to big a puddle and runs but there again practice is the rule.

[hankj]

pjs,

Thanks. I'm gonna try it again tonight if I can con my wife into letting me back into the gadget garage.

Hank

[HAWK]

hankj,

DOUBLE V-GROOVE BUTT JOINT

Hard core penetration on 1/4" butt joint with the MM135:
Bevel both side of each plate to 45 degree angle. Butt the plates with 3/32" open root. Tack into position every 1" on both side. Alternate the tacks: Tack side A beginning at the back edge. Tack side B beginning 1/2" from the back edge. This will help prevent warpage. Weld a 2" root pass on side A near the middle of the butt length. Weld a 2" root pass on side B near each end of the weld length. Alternate root passes in 2" intervals on Side A, then Side B. Burn this first pass in as hot as possible with a good crisp "crackling" arc. Then proceed to a slight weave as pj suggested. The hold 1-2 seconds on each side of the weave is to assure filling in the under cut on each side of the weave. When making the weave hold on the sides at pj stated and pick up speed across the center of the weld. Otherwise you will form a blob or some excessive build up of weld in the center over your root pass. Make your first weave 3/8" or so in width. Again do so on both sides. Alternate sides and length increments if you notice heat warpage being a problem. You can make a second weave pass if you deem necessary. If so, make the second weave 5/8" or so. Do this properly and I doubt a vise and 20 oz ball peen hammer will do any damage. You must burn in the root (first pass) with out much side to side for the initial penetration to be effective. It sounds long and drawn out, but is not really. Practice and let us know how it goes.

[hankj]

Hawk, pj:

1. Did not succed with con-job last night. Didn't get to weld. Played cards.

2. Today, bought text called "Welding Essentials". I should be shot for not doing this first.

3. Hawk, I didn't see your name in the Welding Essentials author credits, but I read your advice - you sure you didn't write this book?

$. Gonna make sparks tonight - let you know.

Hank

[HAWK]

hankj,

Hawk, I didn't see your name in the Welding Essentials author credits, but I read your advice - you sure you didn't write this book?

Nothing to do with the book. Actually have never seen it. I'll take the compliment-just trying to help you out. Let me know how it goes.
I was going to tig some chain guards yesterday for a client, but after cutting the sheets( with my Spectrum 2050 )he broke out his Lincoln 135SP Plus. I hate to admit it, but it's a nice 120V mig. It was set up with .023 ER70S-6 and 75/25. I was impressed with the way it handled the 16 guage sheets-butts and fillets. Most impressed without having to tig for hours.

[hankj]

Hawk,

I tried it like you advised (and like my new book also advises) and succeeded beyond my wildest dreams! Bulletproof! It fired me up so bad, I had to try it with some 3/8 plate I picked up at the scrap yard for my welding table. Trying to grind that much wasn't working - read the book! It says a torch is often used for joint prep. - I tried that and it worked, too. I turned up the voltage all the way and set the wire feed at max for 135 amps and went for it, and I'll be - it works!!!

Thanks.

I'm gonna read awhile and stop bugging you guys. I'll be back when I get stuck (probably tomorrow) or something new comes up.

Be well.

Hank

[Paul Seaman]

Hank: cool I love it when skills are noticable improved mine or someone elses. Don't think it is bugging us either, most all of us are here to gain from others like we help others, when we can. Congratulations again and keep on welding.pjs

[HAWK]

hank,

Great deal! "...love it when plan comes together". Like pj said, you are not bugging anybody. We're just glad to see what we post helps somebody. I am very glad you are excited and ready to keep welding.

If you have access to a 250 amp or larger stick welding machine and an air compressor, then a 3/16" carbon rod sure does make a nice bevel. Also some metal working tool companies manufacturer a nice assortment of bevel tools for steel plate. However, they can get expensive. I have a 12 amp Milwaukee grinder with 4.5" x 1/4" coarse wheels for beveling unless I break out the carbon arc torch.

[hankj]

pjs, Hawk:

Thanks, gents.

Re: the carbon arc torch - this old Sears A/C unit is rated at 295 amps. According to what I can find out as of now, arc voltage ought to be around 45 volts. If this is true, i should be able to run at 250 amps on the 50 amp breaker I've installed. If not, it's off to the electrical supply house for a 60 amp trip switch and some #6. I guess the fastest way to figure it out is to acquire the requisite hardware and try it!

Have to share the news: duck hunter buddy needed ramp to get his ATV into his P/U truck. 40' of 1" x .090 wall square tube and two hours later, and I took it to him! We loaded the ATV - didn't break or bend the thing! My first "useful" project! I'm pumped.

Hank

[Paul Seaman]

Hank; Pumped up, well good as long as we don't create a monster that stays out all night empting soda cans so you can weld them together, just because you can eh hawk.

I've had a similar feeling rescently in the land of Aluminum, which I had never welded before 4 monthes ago, now everyone I know needs something fixed or built in Aluminum. So be careful who you tell of your new found tallent. Proud of you and glad to be of help in some part, Im still learning too, you keep on keepin on and weld well. pjs

[Blondie_486]

HAWK,

I have a Lincoln SP100 at work and a SP125 at home. I'd have bought a Miller but the only Miller dealer in the area and I don't get along too well, but I have found a dealer in Cleveland I like so all of my future machines will be "BLUE". At any rate the 120V Lincoln SP series are very good machines I weld anything from 22ga to 1/2" plate with mine the heavy stuff is multi-pass and it turns down nice to to the "tissue paper" thin stuff. It's all in the technique and of course it all takes practice, practice, practice. But back to your point the smaller machines on steel and stainless can save hours of TIGging, the boss was amazed at what that little machine he had sitting in the corner of the shop for years would do. I guess it just took getting the right person in the shop to make it work for him.

I have a question for you. How is it you get to experience using so many different machines? You seem to be pretty knowledgeable on most of the Miller product line and I really appreciate you sharing your experiences with the different machines with all of us.

Blondie_486

[HAWK]

Blondie_486,

First of all I'm sorry your dealer isn't willing to deal. We have a independent dealer in our area that's the same. It is his way or no way. Here's the deal on machines. Before I went out on my own I worked around several machine shops with buildings full of Miller welders. I have an on going contract with a local mechanical/utility contractor that gives me the opportunity to use different machines. Also, I have been fortunate enough to have bought nearly new machines at auctions, bankruptcy sales, etc. I use them a while and pass on down the line to try something newer or different.

I have found my mainstay these days and do more demo/testing by invitation than buying and passing down. I use a Trailblazer 301G with all the field accessories: HF box, 30A spoolgun & controller, 2050 plasma, 12RC wire feeder, etc. This is a great field rig. It's tough to justify the Big 40 CC/CV. Although I worked with one at a machine shop. I use a Dynasty 200DX in my shop for most small things.

Other than welding being a big part of my business income and plain good luck I really enjoy learning about the Miller products for my personal knowledge. I still get the opportunity to do in house and sometimes field demo new equipment on arrival from a local dealer. It helps them to sell it and it helps me learn from hands on.

The little Lincoln 135 SP+ belongs to one of my clients. It was much easier than dragging out 400' 2/0 and suitcase feeder for an hours weld time. I was thoroughly impressed! Let me know If I can help you.

[Blondie_486]

HAWK,

I wish I had the opportunities that you do to try the different machines. I'm also glad that you are willing to share your experiences with the group. I used to do field welding in the oilfields and had a Big 40 and loved it it was a great machine, I didn't have the chance to add TIG capabilities and a wire feeder before the whole 9 yards was stolen. Unfortunately I didn't read my insurance policy well enough and trusted that my agent would act in my best interest and only the truck was insured none of the equipment was insured. Needless to say I wasn't able to replace the Big 40 and had to go back working for someone else. I'm hoping to make another go at it though only this time I won't be doing field work. I'm hoping to do some custom fabricaing as I do have access to shear, brake, and rolls and hope to do some fabricating for the off roaders as well as custom beds for the 1 ton and larger cab and chassis trucks and hopefully I'll be able to start building custom motorcycles mainly choppers. Well we'll see what's in the future one day at a time.

Thanks again
Blondie_486

[HAWK]

Blondie_486,

I hate to hear that. I think my insurance is correct. I had better check. Thanks for the heads up. Good luck in your fabrication ventures. I doubt I'll ever own another engine drive. My TB301G does all I ever need. I stay away from the really big stuff. If 325 amps at 60% or 300 at 100% won't get it done, I call my buddy and pass it in down the line. He's a little younger and ambitious. I don't mind pushing the big flux wire or hot spray from time to time, but not daily.

Anymore TIG on carbon steel, aluminum, mixed alloys, copper is what I'd rather do, but I still take some jobs just for the cash. I have a really unique business partner ship with a great friend. I sell and weld: welding is grinding down to 35% or so of my work and sales is kicking in about 65% of time spent. Maybe one day I'll go back to it 100%-doubtful. At any rate I really love welding: It's an art that is hard to master, it's relaxing, its fun, and it pays! What more can you ask of a job?