TIG Welding a tight area.

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  • ggodwin
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2010
    • 108

    TIG Welding a tight area.

    I have a Diversion 165 welder and looking to expand my knowledge/capability. You guy's always level me up. I can't get my cup insider here to weld it like I would like. How do you recommend I weld this bead? It is OK if the weld goes onto the third tube.

    I know I need to change my cup size. But what other parameters need to change and what can I expect?

    6061 Aluminum 0.035 wall (thin!)
    currently I have a #7 cup.


    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by ggodwin; 07-02-2014, 06:53 AM.
  • ja baudin
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 347

    #2
    Originally posted by ggodwin View Post
    I have a Diversion 165 welder and looking to expand my knowledge/capability. You guy's always level me up. I can't get my cup insider here to weld it like I would like. How do you recommend I weld this bead? It is OK if the weld goes onto the third tube.

    I know I need to change my cup size. But what other parameters need to change and what can I expect?

    6061 Aluminum 0.035 wall (thin!)
    currently I have a #7 cup.


    [ATTACH=CONFIG]34288[/ATTACH]


    A gas lens with a longer tungsten stick out may be helpful.
    sigpic

    Dynasty 200 DX
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    • kvwall
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2012
      • 220

      #3
      Originally posted by ggodwin View Post
      I have a Diversion 165 welder and looking to expand my knowledge/capability. You guy's always level me up. I can't get my cup insider here to weld it like I would like. How do you recommend I weld this bead? It is OK if the weld goes onto the third tube.

      I know I need to change my cup size. But what other parameters need to change and what can I expect?

      6061 Aluminum 0.035 wall (thin!)
      currently I have a #7 cup.


      [ATTACH=CONFIG]34288[/ATTACH]
      Longer stickout. Increase shielding gas flow a bit for the longer stickout. I would attack it from the sides. No need to weld straight down.
      Lincoln Vantage 400
      Trailblazer® 302 Air Pak™

      Miller Dynasty® 350
      Millermatic 350P Aluminum
      Millermatic® 252
      Syncrowave 351
      Lincoln LN-25 Pro

      Multimaticâ„¢ 200

      XR-Aluma Pro Gun
      Diversionâ„¢ 180

      Spectrum® 625 X-TREME™

      Thermal Dynamics® Cutmaster® 52
      Victor Oxy/Acetylene Set

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      • ggodwin
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2010
        • 108

        #4
        Should I start the bead in the deepest of the tight spots?

        Comment

        • ja baudin
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 347

          #5
          Originally posted by ggodwin View Post
          Should I start the bead in the deepest of the tight spots?
          I would weld into or toward the deepest spot, the additional heat input may help the flow of material into that area.
          sigpic

          Dynasty 200 DX
          Millermatic 350P
          30A Spoolgun
          Lincoln Pro Mig 140
          Hypertherm Powermax 30
          14" Rage Evolution dry saw
          40 ton press brake
          Evenheat Heat treat oven

          1x42 / 4x48 belt grinder

          Comment

          • cope
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2005
            • 877

            #6
            This set would help you. BTW, they are CK Worldwide, not junk.

            Stubby Gas Lens Kit for all 17, 18 & 26 series tig torches. This kit allows you to put a 9 or 20 cup onto a 17, 18 or 26 torch head. This kit fitsall 17 & 26 series air cooled torches and 18 series water cooled torches, including the Lincoln PTA-17, PTA-18 and PTA-26 torches, Miller Diamondback DB17, DB18 and DB 26 torches, along with the Weldcraft LS-17, WP-17, WP-18 and WP-26 torches.
            Last edited by cope; 07-02-2014, 05:11 PM.

            Comment

            • walker
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2007
              • 1259

              #7
              Maybe a plain cup might get you further in there as well, try a 6.

              Comment

              • OscarJr
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2014
                • 753

                #8
                gas lens + aluminum foil dam so you can get the stick out that you need, or this

                CK Micro Tig Torch
                HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                HTP Microcut 875SC

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                • Portable Welder
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 1979

                  #9
                  Since both tubes need to be welded you can bring the weld up higher onto the tubes as they spread far enough apart to allow the cup to get in.

                  Comment

                  • zank
                    Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 48

                    #10
                    Yes, the bead can flow onto the third tube. Just make sure you aren't just bridging the gap. Don't be afraid of a bigger fillet. As Oscar said, a foil dam is a great tool. I use them a lot, especially when working with titanium. With that joint, I'd run a gas lens, #8 cup, and about 18-20 CFH. That should suffice to get the coverage you'll need with the additional stickout.


                    Trying out a Dynasty by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr
                    Mike Zanconato
                    Zanconato Custom Cycles
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                    Dynasty 280DX
                    Meco Midget

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                    • ggodwin
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 108

                      #11
                      What do you mean by Aluminum foil dam?
                      I attempted this joint and it did not turn out the way I wanted it to. I think the gas lens may be an new purchase.

                      Is the gas lens a handy tool to use all the time? or just in these joints?

                      Comment

                      • ggodwin
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 108

                        #12
                        Originally posted by zank View Post
                        Yes, the bead can flow onto the third tube. Just make sure you aren't just bridging the gap. Don't be afraid of a bigger fillet. As Oscar said, a foil dam is a great tool. I use them a lot, especially when working with titanium. With that joint, I'd run a gas lens, #8 cup, and about 18-20 CFH. That should suffice to get the coverage you'll need with the additional stickout.


                        Trying out a Dynasty by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr
                        Zank,
                        Which welder do you use? I think I'm very limited with my diversion. Not really sure how capable it is.

                        Comment

                        • OscarJr
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2014
                          • 753

                          #13
                          Originally posted by ggodwin View Post
                          What do you mean by Aluminum foil dam?
                          I attempted this joint and it did not turn out the way I wanted it to. I think the gas lens may be an new purchase.

                          Is the gas lens a handy tool to use all the time? or just in these joints?
                          Tig Welding 4130 Tubing with E70S2 rod. Because it Works



                          a gas lens to save on argon is great if you know how to manage the stick out. If you go stupid crazy on the stick out, then you don't get any gas savings because you have to increase the argon flow. Keep the stickout as low as you can possibly manage, and you will be surprised how low you can turn down the argon flow without oxidation from the atmosphere.

                          Of course the other edge of the sword is that you can use much longer stickouts IF you are willing to accept the greater argon consumption that goes along with longer stickouts. For these kinds of joints, when you're right in the middle of the "V", you pretty much have to use a longer stickout and accept that you're using more argon for that one joint.

                          Even then, an aluminum foil dam works great in addition to a gas lens because argon just "rolls" around and off the joint because of it's density. It's denser than air, so it wants to flow downwards before it ends up mixing with the atmosphere naturally. Using both an aluminum foil dam AND a gas lens you can fine tune the argon consumption (the lowest being a close fitting dam and adjusting the argon flow to suit).

                          Also, make absolutely certain you put a fresh clean grind on your tungsten. Get as long of a taper as you can (3-5x the diameter is what I would use on a 1/16" tungsten if I were you). If you just approach this weld with any old crappy crud'd up tungsten you found in a drawer, you're doomed to begin with. Little things like this (which we can't be sure of unless you disclose each and every single little detail in the beginning of the discussion) are what help out in the long run (meaning it will keep a very stable arc that will not tend to wander off to the sides as much as it would if you did not plan ahead for this type of joint).
                          Last edited by OscarJr; 07-08-2014, 11:23 AM.
                          HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                          HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                          HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                          HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                          HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                          HTP Microcut 875SC

                          Comment

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