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about ready to pull my hair out!!

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  • ethandg
    started a topic about ready to pull my hair out!!

    about ready to pull my hair out!!

    ok, I bought a miller bobcat 225g with a onan p216g. I had always wondered why it puked out oil out of the fuel pump. needless to say i found out what was causing it. I found that I had 2 bent intake valves and lost the seat in on of them and as of right now the engine is FUBAR'D as of right now. So here is the million dollar question of the day... The welder is a 1991 model according to MILLER, so I am guessing the engine is a 1990-1992.. I found another p216g with very little run time, but before i do that i was wondering if these engines will swap out or if I am going to run in to problems with the crank mating to the generator...
    Last edited by ethandg; 01-31-2014, 05:19 PM.

  • ethandg
    replied
    parts & stuff

    Tryagn5 - I would be looking at a complete top end rebuild. I am one of these guides that while I have it tore all apart I might as well do the bottom end because I am already there. I will not have a cobbled together machine that just nickels and dimes me to death.

    Duaneb55 - Good thing I ain't running a Lincoln machine! LOL I know you have quite a bit of experience on the bobus 225g, all of the info you share with us here don't fall on deaf ears.

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  • Tryagn5
    replied
    fix the guides...

    If money is tight, pull the engine, have a machine shop fix the guides(they likely can get the guides, and valve seat cheaper then you can, rering the engine and go, unless the bore is trashed likely a set of rings and gaskets will be it. (if your realy hurting you can do only one cylinder). The trick with working on an onan is not breaking the exhaust manifold bolts and headbolts off.

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  • duaneb55
    replied
    That would be for the Miller Onan powered units. Lincoln and other equipment manufacturers used different configurations.

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  • ethandg
    replied
    info

    duaneb55 I am glad you chimed in.. LOL you seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to the Bobus 225g. So you are saying that the 45BH crank is the most common, is that in the Onan Powered Miller machines or common across the board? I must be honest I don't have a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket or I would spring for the 1300 rebuild kit. I am guessing that when it dropped the valve guide that is what bent my valve(s). Both guides were pretty tore up. I could set the guid back in place and wiggle it so it is WAY out.

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  • duaneb55
    replied
    No detachable jugs on the Onan, no hydraulic lifters, flat head design so no chance of the valves hitting the pistons.

    Actually, Onan had at least 23 different cranks over the years. All the tapered cranks for Millers were a 1.50 taper (1.5"/foot) with the most common being the type "45BH". Miller changed to the type 45EE, 1" threaded crank in the mid 90's.

    The rare "45CB" and "45CE" cranks were also a 1.50 taper with slightly different length details and 7/16-14 center bolt threads rather than the 5/16-24 of the common 45BH cranks.

    My recommendation would be to:
    1) Overhaul the one you've got with new pistons, rings, valves, guides, etc.
    http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_...roducts_id=124 (or individual parts as needed)
    I believe TJ (onanparts.com) offers oversized seats that would require the services of a machine shop to install.

    2) Get the one that would pretty much be given to you and swap out the cranks. However, this requires tearing both units down completely at which time you can assess exactly what parts (rings, gaskets, etc.) that you'll need to put it back together. I've taken this path when swapping an earlier tapered crank out for the later threaded version.

    Either way, due to design, you'll have to pull the pistons to get the crank out so plan on rings for hard parts at the very least.

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  • ethandg
    replied
    swapping guts

    From what I have seen the block casting is one piece, so if any guts swapping were to be done it would have to be the bottom end, crank, rods, and pistons. But I would be curious to how much machine work would run??

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  • cruizer
    replied
    Going to guess and say that the previous owner, used moisture ridden dinosuar oil, in which moisture got into the hydraulic lifters, froze, and the lifters became solid, driving the valve/s down enough to make contact with the piston. This usually just bends the pushrods but can take out a valve pretty fast too. So your going too have to replace them from the donor.

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  • cruizer
    replied
    Thats true, as jugs pull off, why not r/r the jug, piston and head. Way simpler than pulling and replacing the engine, as long as the connecting rod is ok.

    Then you could use ANY P216 engine as a donor.
    Last edited by cruizer; 02-01-2014, 12:24 PM.

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  • Meltedmetal
    replied
    At that price (almost given to me)can you swap the top end?---Meltedmetal

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  • ethandg
    replied
    engines

    Cruizer, I found that out when I called Cummins/Onan, lol. I could not believe how many variations there were!!! But I reckon all I can do is get the numbers and run them.

    Snoeproe, I was told by my mechanic that between machining and rebuilding it I would be money ahead to just buy a new one, because the valve seats would have to be oversized among other things. He also said that if I could find a used one that wasn't wore out that may be my best bet. I don't have a lot of money to blow on a engine and, I found one that would be pretty much just given to me. But it has to be the correct variation of that engine. It is on a small Case lawn tractor.

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  • snoeproe
    replied
    Have you looked into the cost of overhauling your engine?
    New valves, guides, springs, cam shaft etc.

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  • cruizer
    replied
    Lots of variations, thats why the engines have a specific code

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  • ethandg
    replied
    data plate

    So the data plate on the engine has to match character for character?? So if that is correct I need to find a 20+ year old engine with low hours? Or drop about 1500.00 on a new engine?

    I wouldn't think there would be THAT much variance in crankshafts, with the exception of narrow taper, wide taper and threaded.

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  • cruizer
    replied
    Old engine has a code on the data plate, the new engine must have the same code

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