4943 for 356 Aluminum TIG Casting repair..?

[JerseyWelder]

Every cast I weld is different. 4043 has less tendency to crack with the inconsistencies of welding cast just because it's more ductile.I'm generally not worried about that small gain in tensile strength with cast repairs as they are usually one of a kind, somewhat dirty, unknown contents and such. That's all. Most cast repairs I do are a design flaw so I reinforce them. I'd gladly use 4943 if that's all I had but I have both and the ductility helps with castings as they are mating surfaces that need to have a minor "give" to them. Dave

From all that I can see... 4943 offers superior performance to 4043 in welding cast as well..

what is the reasoning in using 4043 for that purpose if you have 4943 on hand..??

The merits of 4943 on TIG welding cast aluminum as opposed to other alloys like 4043 was the reason for starting this thread in the first place...and all points pro and con.. so if you could elaborate why... am sure many of us would like to hear..

[H80N]

Every cast I weld is different. 4043 has less tendency to crack with the inconsistencies of welding cast just because it's more ductile.I'm generally not worried about that small gain in tensile strength with cast repairs as they are usually one of a kind, somewhat dirty, unknown contents and such. That's all. Most cast repairs I do are a design flaw so I reinforce them. I'd gladly use 4943 if that's all I had but I have both and the ductility helps with castings as they are mating surfaces that need to have a minor "give" to them. Dave

I'm not seeing it... but if it works for you.. then more power to you...

For me 4943 has pretty much replaced 4043... and absolutely so on Al Castings..

[JerseyWelder]

To each their own. You asked for my opinion and I gave it. I stick with what works for me until I find something better. I like 4943 better on structural stuff.4943 has been out for a while. I wonder why others aren't putting it out there yet.

I'm not seeing it... but if it works for you.. then more power to you...

For me 4943 has pretty much replaced 4043... and absolutely so on Al Castings..

[H80N]

To each their own. You asked for my opinion and I gave it. I stick with what works for me until I find something better. I like 4943 better on structural stuff.4943 has been out for a while. I wonder why others aren't putting it out there yet.

4943 has only been out a couple of years and is patented... so.. only Maxal/Hobart has it..

Here is one of the announcements

http://www.marinelink.com/news/paten...ces350264.aspx

Maxal Introduces Patent-Pending 4943 Aluminum Filler Metals

Press Release
Friday, December 21, 2012



Maxal 4943

Maxal has introduced new patent-pending 4943 aluminum MIG wire and TIG cut-lengths, the first aluminum filler metal to be developed, registered by the Aluminum Association and classified by the American Welding Society (AWS) for wrought commercial applications in over 40 years.

Maxal developed the new product in response to industry demands for a higher-strength aluminum welding solution that also offers the advantages of using a 4043 aluminum filler metal, including excellent corrosion resistance, ease of welding and low hot cracking sensitivity. It is also suitable for elevated temperature applications, and provides the ability to reduce weld size without compromising strength.

Maxal 4943 filler metal features an AWS A5.10 classification, in addition to a filler metal material group allocation of F23 from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME). Due to its ASME F-number allocation, users may be able to weld with Maxal 4943 aluminum filler metal using the same welding procedure as 4043 products.

Maxal tests have shown up to 40 percent increase in yield strength and up to 20 percent increase in ultimate tensile strength with this product compared to 4043 aluminum products, as well as an increase of approximately 20 percent in shear strength. The filler metal can be used, with advantage, as a direct replacement for 4643 filler metal in post-weld heat treatment applications. Unlike 4043 products, 4943 filler metal does not depend upon dilution from the base metal during welding to increase the strength of the weld deposit. 4943 filler metal can be used for welding 1xxx, 3xxx, 5xxx with less than 2.5%Mg, and 6xxx series base metals.

Maxal 4943 MIG wire offers precisely controlled wire diameter, cast and helix, high column strength and a surface condition that optimizes feedability. The spooled products are available in diameters ranging from .030 to 1/16 inches. TIG cut-lengths also offer excellent weldability and are available in 1/16-, 3/32-, 1/8-, 5/32- and 3/16- inch diameters.

Both products are ideal for welding automotive and motorcycle frames, wheels, furniture, ladders and frames, ship decks, pleasure boats, bicycles, and aerospace applications, as well as for A356.0 casting repairs.

Maxal 4943 aluminum filler metal exhibits low smut and discoloration, similar to 4043 aluminum products, and offers low shrinkage rates and high weld pool fluidity. It also features high-strength characteristics in the post-weld thermally treated condition, when compared to 4043 and 4643 filler metals.

[JerseyWelder]

Interesting. I just used some tonight to modify a yz250 subframe for freestyle motocross. I like how it flows. Very smooth puddle. Problem is, even my local dealers that sell Hobart don't stock it. I had to special order it. I checked with ten different local places and couldn't find it for sale online either. I just happen to have about 30lb of 4043 3/32 I gotta use up too...

4943 has only been out a couple of years and is patented... so.. only Maxal/Hobart has it..

Here is one of the announcements

http://www.marinelink.com/news/paten...ces350264.aspx

Maxal Introduces Patent-Pending 4943 Aluminum Filler Metals

Press Release
Friday, December 21, 2012



Maxal 4943

Maxal has introduced new patent-pending 4943 aluminum MIG wire and TIG cut-lengths, the first aluminum filler metal to be developed, registered by the Aluminum Association and classified by the American Welding Society (AWS) for wrought commercial applications in over 40 years.

Maxal developed the new product in response to industry demands for a higher-strength aluminum welding solution that also offers the advantages of using a 4043 aluminum filler metal, including excellent corrosion resistance, ease of welding and low hot cracking sensitivity. It is also suitable for elevated temperature applications, and provides the ability to reduce weld size without compromising strength.

Maxal 4943 filler metal features an AWS A5.10 classification, in addition to a filler metal material group allocation of F23 from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME). Due to its ASME F-number allocation, users may be able to weld with Maxal 4943 aluminum filler metal using the same welding procedure as 4043 products.

Maxal tests have shown up to 40 percent increase in yield strength and up to 20 percent increase in ultimate tensile strength with this product compared to 4043 aluminum products, as well as an increase of approximately 20 percent in shear strength. The filler metal can be used, with advantage, as a direct replacement for 4643 filler metal in post-weld heat treatment applications. Unlike 4043 products, 4943 filler metal does not depend upon dilution from the base metal during welding to increase the strength of the weld deposit. 4943 filler metal can be used for welding 1xxx, 3xxx, 5xxx with less than 2.5%Mg, and 6xxx series base metals.

Maxal 4943 MIG wire offers precisely controlled wire diameter, cast and helix, high column strength and a surface condition that optimizes feedability. The spooled products are available in diameters ranging from .030 to 1/16 inches. TIG cut-lengths also offer excellent weldability and are available in 1/16-, 3/32-, 1/8-, 5/32- and 3/16- inch diameters.

Both products are ideal for welding automotive and motorcycle frames, wheels, furniture, ladders and frames, ship decks, pleasure boats, bicycles, and aerospace applications, as well as for A356.0 casting repairs.

Maxal 4943 aluminum filler metal exhibits low smut and discoloration, similar to 4043 aluminum products, and offers low shrinkage rates and high weld pool fluidity. It also features high-strength characteristics in the post-weld thermally treated condition, when compared to 4043 and 4643 filler metals.

[H80N]

Hiduminium R.R.50 Aluminum Alloy

Galen

I have been asked to repair a rather rare Jaguar XK cylinder head...

this head is cast out of Hiduminium R.R.50 Aluminum Alloy (British)

I am assuming that 4943 is still the correct TIG filler but figured I would check...

sure don't want any surprises... they describe it as a high strength sand castable alloy..

have not found the composition

[dave powelson]

Hiduminium R.R.50 Aluminum Alloy

Galen

I have been asked to repair a rather rare Jaguar XK cylinder head...

this head is cast out of Hiduminium R.R.50 Aluminum Alloy (British)

I am assuming that 4943 is still the correct TIG filler but figured I would check...

sure don't want any surprises... they describe it as a high strength sand castable alloy..

have not found the composition

......well it just might behoove you to look at some
links from Google, on composition and filler compatibility:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiduminium

http://xklsv.org/viewwiki.php?title=Hiduminium

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200084.html

[H80N]

......well it just might behoove you to look at some
links from Google, on composition and filler compatibility:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiduminium

http://xklsv.org/viewwiki.php?title=Hiduminium

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200084.html

Thanks... but I had already looked at those... and did not find the info on "RR50" .... do not expect anything ultra exotic......

probably no big deal... but would rather check with Galen on this one...

[Hobart Aluminum]

Heiti,

Unfortunately there is not a clear cut answer to this one. Hiduminium RR 50 stands for ‘high duty’ aluminum alloy designed by Rolls Royce. It is a casting alloy that has a chemistry of:

Silicon 1.5-2.0%
Iron 0.8-1.4%
Copper 0.8-2.0%
Magnesium 0.05-2.0%
Titanium 0.2%
Aluminum balance

The problem is with the combination of the copper and magnesium. There are several of the 2XXX wrought alloys and 2XX.X cast alloys that are considered unweldable because of the potential for stress corrosion cracking because of the copper and magnesium in the base metal. Hiduminium RR 50 could have the same problem. The conundrum is that the range on the magnesium (0.05-2.0%) is so large that if it were on the low side of the range, you’d be ok and wouldn’t have problems with stress corrosion cracking. Unfortunately the only way to know is to send a sample of the casting out for chemical analysis or weld it and wait to see if it cracks. It may not crack right away and could take weeks/months (I would advise against this option).

If you can’t send it out for analysis and decide to weld it, here is the section from the aluminum filler metal selection chart for alloy 2036—it’s the closest to the chemistry of the RR 50:




Hope this helps,
Galen

[H80N]

Heiti,

Unfortunately there is not a clear cut answer to this one. Hiduminium RR 50 stands for ‘high duty’ aluminum alloy designed by Rolls Royce. It is a casting alloy that has a chemistry of:

Silicon 1.5-2.0%
Iron 0.8-1.4%
Copper 0.8-2.0%
Magnesium 0.05-2.0%
Titanium 0.2%
Aluminum balance

The problem is with the combination of the copper and magnesium. There are several of the 2XXX wrought alloys and 2XX.X cast alloys that are considered unweldable because of the potential for stress corrosion cracking because of the copper and magnesium in the base metal. Hiduminium RR 50 could have the same problem. The conundrum is that the range on the magnesium (0.05-2.0%) is so large that if it were on the low side of the range, you’d be ok and wouldn’t have problems with stress corrosion cracking. Unfortunately the only way to know is to send a sample of the casting out for chemical analysis or weld it and wait to see if it cracks. It may not crack right away and could take weeks/months (I would advise against this option).

If you can’t send it out for analysis and decide to weld it, here is the section from the aluminum filler metal selection chart for alloy 2036—it’s the closest to the chemistry of the RR 50:

[ATTACH]34505[/ATTACH]


Hope this helps,
Galen

Galen

Thank you for the info and quick response....

I guess we will have to back up and think about this a little..

would much rather be informed than leaping blindly into the abyss

Regards

Heiti

[1930case]

You could check Jaguar forums to find out what effective procedures are for that head.

When in doubt, look for a forum. That's how I found this one.

[H80N]

You could check Jaguar forums to find out what effective procedures are for that head.

When in doubt, look for a forum. That's how I found this one.

Thanks... but we did all that

Last I heard the owner was going to see if he could smooth out the worst dings in the chambers and try to avoid welding altogether...it is in his hands... have not heard a progress report in quite a while...

Would have been an interesting project..