4943 for 356 Aluminum TIG Casting repair..?

[H80N]

Are you saying 4943 will replace 4043 in all or most applications? Do you see any downside?

Sure does look like it...

I think Terry (Shovelon) has the most experience with it around here and he is pretty positive on it...

My experience is much less... but all good...

[H80N]

Am going to try and get somebody from Hobart/Maxal to chime in on 4943 and maybe give us some more in depth info...

It is a propriatery alloy and relatively new...they are the only ones that have it...

[shovelon]

Are you saying 4943 will replace 4043 in all or most applications? Do you see any downside?

I don't see any downside whatsoever. My biggest concern was it's ability to take chem film. The latest job I did got chem film, and it took it fine. 5356 does not take chem film well.

As far as strength, I can really tell the improvement. It is less gummy for threading like 4043 is but I still prefer the 5356 as I have used it for years.

What gets me is how fast 4943 wets. I barely strike an arc to the root, add filler and whammy I am off. More forgiving than 5356 on castings.

What I don't like is the price.

[Hobart Aluminum]

It's good to see that there is interest in the 4943 alloy on the Miller forum.

Let me introduce myself...I am the Senior Welding Engineer for Hobart Aluminum (formerly Maxal) and am the Product Specialist for the eastern half of the US. I have been with the ITW Welding Group since 1998 and was a Welding Engineer for Miller Electric in Appleton, WI for 5-1/2 years and worked on several of the Millermatic products (MM 210, MM 251, MM350P to name a few). Prior to coming to Maxal I was the Welding Engineer at the ITW Corporate Welding Technology Center in Chicago. Please feel free to contact me via email if you ever have aluminum welding related questions.

Here are the updated datasheets for all the aluminum alloys offered by Hobart Aluminum:

Maxal 1100
Maxal 4043
Maxal 4047
Maxal 4943
Maxal 5183
Maxal 5356
Maxal 5554
Maxal 5556

Also, here is the 4943 Article in AWS Welding Journal from the July 2013 issue.

I will attempt to answer some of the open questions:

"Are you saying 4943 will replace 4043 in all or most applications? Do you see any downside?"
Yes, 4943 can be used as a replacement anywhere 4043 is currently being used. In the as welded condition it will produce 50% higher yield strength and 25% higher UTS. 4043 as welded tensile strength is 28 ksi and 4943 is 35 ksi.

Due to its chemistry it is also heat treatable (4043 is not) so if you need higher strengths it can be post weld age and achieve 42 ksi (same strength as 6061-T6) and even higher strength can be achieved if you PWHT&A (49 ksi).


Is 4943 gummy like 4043...or can it be machined and threaded like 5356...just curious if anybody has experience on that aspect..
You might notice that 4943 is slightly less gummy than 4043 but not appreciably. 5356 is 'harder' due to the 5% Mg in it's chemistry whereas 4943 is 5% silicon and 0.4% Mg.

Price is higher
Yes, the price is slightly higher but we have no control over what our distributors charge. If you don't like the price your distributor is charging, check with another distributor in your area--they might sell it for less. Because its a new alloy, they might be charging more up front because they may feel that there is some level of 'risk' in stocking this alloy. Here is a link to find Hobart Distributors. As more people start requesting 4943 the distributors will begin stocking it regularly and this might cause the price to drop some.

Regards,
Galen

[MMW]

Thank you Galen & welcome to this forum. I hope you will stick around & add your knowledge here in the future.

[H80N]

Thanks Galen..!!

you are a valued technical resource....

[H80N]

4943 for ALUSIL casting...

A question came up the other day about welding up an ALUSIL engine block bracket on an old Porsche 928S4....

is 4943 the correct filler..?? if not what is??

Did a little looking around and could not find a good answer...

this is a structural member but NOT cylinder liner...

ALUSIL is common in many european engines...

anybody have an answer..?? Galen??

Here is a thread on ALUSIL

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...m-engine-block

and some good info on ALUSIL from it..

Alusil as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (AlSi17Cu4Mg) contains approximately 70% aluminium and 30% silicon.[1][2] This alloy was created in 1927 by Schweizer & Fehrenbach[3] of Baden-Baden Germany and further developed by Kolbenschmidt.[2]

The Alusil aluminium alloy is commonly used to make linerless aluminium alloy engine blocks.[4] Alusil, when etched, will expose a very hard silicon precipitate. The silicon surface is porous enough to hold oil, and is an excellent bearing surface. BMW switched from Nikasil-coated cylinder walls to Alusil in 1996 to eliminate the corrosion problems caused through the use of petrol/gasoline containing sulfur.

Engines using Alusil include:

Audi 2.4 V6[1][5]
Audi 3.2 FSI V6[5]
Audi 4.2 FSI V8[1][3]
Audi 5.2 FSI V10
Audi/Volkswagen 6.0 W12
BMW N52 I6
BMW M62 V8
BMW N62 V8
BMW V12[6]
Porsche 928 V8
Porsche 924S I4
Porsche 944 I4
Porsche 968 I4
Porsche Cayenne V8[3]

[dave powelson]

actual alusil composition

A question came up the other day about welding up an ALUSIL engine block bracket on an old Porsche 928S4....

is 4943 the correct filler..?? if not what is??


Here is a thread on ALUSIL

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...m-engine-block

and some good info on ALUSIL from it..

Below credit to Wiki:
Alusil as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (Al17Si4CuMg or A390) contains approximately 78% aluminium and 17% silicon.^[1][2] This alloy was created in 1927 by Schweizer & Fehrenbach^[3] of Baden-Baden Germany and further developed by Kolbenschmidt.^[2]


17% silicon content is a whale of a lot different than 30% silicon.
The 30% content in Capt. Kidd's post is in error.

http://www.steelnumber.com/en/steel_...p?name_id=1254

The above link has equivalencies from US to European, etc. grades
and compositions.

[H80N]

Below credit to Wiki:
Alusil as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (Al17Si4CuMg or A390) contains approximately 78% aluminium and 17% silicon.^[1][2] This alloy was created in 1927 by Schweizer & Fehrenbach^[3] of Baden-Baden Germany and further developed by Kolbenschmidt.^[2]


17% silicon content is a whale of a lot different than 30% silicon.
The 30% content in Capt. Kidd's post is in error.

http://www.steelnumber.com/en/steel_...p?name_id=1254

The above link has equivalencies from US to European, etc. grades
and compositions.

Dave

Thanks for the corrected info...

that makes the U.S. Equiv out to be.... B390.0

[H80N]

I did find a German specialty rod for ALUSIL... that might be suitable..

but I sure hate to order something from overseas if something domestic will do a good job..

here is the datasheet..

http://www.technolit.de/App/WebObjec.../Alusil-S.html


Also found a source that claimed 4145 filler was suitable..

http://www.weldingwire.com/applicati...pload/4145.pdf

[Hobart Aluminum]

If the Alusil alloy is truly A390 then its chemistry is:

16.0-18.0% silicon
0.50% Fe
4.0-5.0% Cu
0.10% Mn
0.45-0.65% Mg
0.10% Zn
0.20% Ti
Remainder aluminum

The German filler rod on the Techolit web page is nothing more than R4047 which is available at almost any welding distributor and has the closest match for silicon at 12%.

4145 has probably the closest overall chemistry match:

9.3-10.7% Si
0.8% Fe
3.3-4.7% Cu
0.15% Mn
0.15% Mg
0.20% Zn

On most filler metal selection charts 4043 and 4145 are normally listed for welding these types of castings (4047 and 4943 are interchangeable for 4043 in all applications).

In a nutshell, 4047, 4145, 4943 or 4043 should work.

[shovelon]

In a nutshell, 4047, 4145, 4943 or 4043 should work.

Awesome.

Thanks!

[H80N]

Just noticed and read this AWS article on 4943.. from Galen's answer

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aws/...tid=Cover1#/36

figured if I missed it... others may have also

Really good background and alloy comparison...

pretty cool..

[JerseyWelder]

I use 4943. It flows real nice.....welded up a 6061-tc angle frame the other day.....I still use 4043 for all cast repairs though...Dave

Just noticed and read this AWS article on 4943.. from Galen's answer

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aws/...tid=Cover1#/36

figured if I missed it... others may have also

Really good background and alloy comparison...

pretty cool..

[H80N]

I use 4943. It flows real nice.....welded up a 6061-tc angle frame the other day.....I still use 4043 for all cast repairs though...Dave

From all that I can see... 4943 offers superior performance to 4043 in welding cast as well..

what is the reasoning in using 4043 for that purpose if you have 4943 on hand..??

The merits of 4943 on TIG welding cast aluminum as opposed to other alloys like 4043 was the reason for starting this thread in the first place...and all points pro and con.. so if you could elaborate why... am sure many of us would like to hear..