MIG questions

[JWD]

oh no its me again!

ok um im down to my last three weeks to buy my first welder! im now contiplating the syncrowave 180 tig welder or a good mig welder! goin by cost for the materials and bein for hobby use i think ill only be working with stainless steel, mild steel, aluminum... i think thats it! ive done a wee bit of mig on one setting, never had a chance to experiment with a machine, they were ungly, sloppy welds! ive never done tig, im sortof hopping the slower travel speeds would allow me to throw down a good one! i dont really want to take the time to learn tig just yet! anyways now my questions!

what MIG welding setup would give me the smoothest welds? is there anyway i could have the MIG go slower, well to bring the torch travel speed down? the faster i go the shakier i get!
what should i expect when it comes to welding aluminum with MIG?

what thickness ranges should i expect from the following metals with a millermatic 210 with the spoolgun for aluminum? stainless steel, mild steel, aluminum

i think thats it for now! thanks alot for any input!

[HAWK]

Mig Welding

JWD,

1. The mig torch travel speed is set by the wire diameter, voltage, and wire speed. Adjusting the the wire speed and voltage to give you a crisp, crackling sound to the arc is what you want in the short arc mode. Keep the arc fairly tight to the metal. Practice, practice, practice. It would be great to have an experienced mig welder give some hands on pointers! Perhaps a friend or someone at your local welding shop could get you started. As for the wire diameter-I find that .035 works well for 1/8" and larger material. It is a really versatile size requiring medium wire feed speeds(200ipm-500ipm).

2. The Millermatic 210 is a great machine. It is offered with a spool gun package for doing aluminum. It is a smooth running machine with a nice arc. You'll need the spoolgun for aluminum. The softer aluminum wire will not feed well through a standard mig torch.

3. When welding aluminum you'll really have to increase your travel speed to avoid burn through or meltdown. The longer you weld on a piece of aluminum the faster you will have to travel. It helps to weld it in short runs. It is very hard to learn and requires dedication and practice. Aluminum mig welding is done in the spray mode with 100% argon and freezes to the base metal almost instantly on contact making it great for all position welding. The crisp, crackling sound of the steel mig arc will be replaced by a steady hissing sound of the aluminum spraying from the spool gun nozzle. You will also have to maintain a greater stick on the aluminum(3/4"-1"). There are a lot of variables and it will really help to have some hands on pointers when getting started. You must push the spool gun forward with aluminum. It is very difficult to achieve a good bead by pulling the torch toward you. Aluminum has to be very clean to weld properly. Get the surface oxides off by brushing with a stainless steel brush. You've got to set your voltage for the thickness say 23 volts for 3/16" and then adjust your wire speed to get in to a good spray arc(nice even hissing sound).

4. You are looking at about 3/8" thickness for a single pass. This may vary a bit between aluminum, stainless, and mild steel.

5. You can use the spool gun for all types of wire, but the aluminum filler wires are softer and not as hard on the gun. You will probably want to run you mild steel and stainless steel through the regular mig torch (like a Miller M25).

Good luck and as always post your questions. Hopefully some of these guys out here on the forum using the MM210 daily will add some more valuable information(PISTOL8 has an MM210 that he loves).

If you need more specifics, give me a shout and I'll try to help you out. It's tough to do long distance. Test drive your machine and let us know what happens. Maybe we can get you up and running. There are lots of great people on this forum that will be glad to help out-I feel sure of this. Maybe ROCK and Andy will add their pieces to this pie.

[JWD]

hey what can i say HAWK thanks alot!

one more thing, whats a major feature that separates the mm 175 and the mm 210? it costs an extra 'G' here and aside from the duty cycle and the 35 amps, what is the major feature? or are the two mentioned it?

[HAWK]

JWD,

An extra 1000 is a lot. Unless there's been a price increase the 175 list is 793 and the 210 list is 1450. You may want to shop around at several dealers. You named the basic differences
1. Duty cycle: 175 130 amps at 30%
210 160 amps at 60%
2. An additional 35 amps-giving it the ability to weld 3/8" in a
single pass for the 210 compared to 1/4" with the 175.

3. If you want a spool gun, the 3035 spoolmate gun is a direct hook up to the 210. The 175 requires an SGA controller(not sure of price).
The 210 features gun on demand: pull the trigger on either the mig torch or the spoolmate and the machine knows what gun you are using.
You don't have to worry with flipping switches or changing connections

4. The 210 will weld at almost the the maximum amperage of the 175 for 6 out of 10 minutes. It has 7 taps. The 175 has one dial for infinite control. In the long run the 210 is on top for sure.

They are both good machines. If I had to choose between the 2 machines, I would pick the 210. IT HAS MORE GUTS. I KNOW THE 35 AMPS AND 60% DUTY CYCLE DON'T SOUND LIKE MUCH, BUT DO SOME MORE SOUL SEARCHING. IT REALLY MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND MUCH TIME WELDING. THE 210 SHOULD SHORT ARC AND SPRAY WITH THE APPROPRIATE GAS MIXES. I DON'T THINK THE 175 WILL GO TO SPRAY. IF SO, NOT FOR LONG.

In summary: 175 high end hobby machine.
210 serious machine capable of light production.

IT'S YOUR MONEY. SPEND IT WISELY. I THINK THE 210 IS AN EXCELLENT CHOICE!!!

[HAWK]

JWD,

Just a note about welding machines from my personal experiences. If at all possible buy a little more than you think you need. Every time I have not followed my own advice I've been sorry. Believe me, it's no fun spending the cash and a week later knowing the machine won't do what you want. I've been there and done that-tried to save some bucks and lost bucks by having to sell and rebuy the right machine. I'D SAVE THE EXTRA BUCKS FOR THE 210 IF YOU WILL BE USING IT A LOT. THE 175 IS GREAT FOR JUST PLAYING AROUND FOR SHORT PERIOD OF TIME(3 OF 10 MINUTES) AT 130. THIS ALSO MEANS THAT AT 175 AMPS THE DUTY CYCLE IS NILL-MAYBE A MINUTE OR SO. FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

[HAWK]

CONTACT

HEY JWD,

I CANNOT CONTACT YOU VIA EMAIL THROUGH THIS FORUM. YOU HAVE IT BLOCKED. EMAIL ME AT [email protected] IF YOU WANT AND MAYBE WE CAN HASH THIS THING OUT.

GOOD LUCK

HAWK

[JeramyK]

Hi JWD,

I am a proud owner of a MM210 and chose it over the MM175. Largly due to the very positive feedback on the MM210. Also, like HAWK mentioned, I chose to go with a slightly larger machine that what I actually need. I paid just under $1200 total shipped to my door. I've seen a package complete with the spoolgun for just over $1600 shipped. This was something I passed up for now as I don't have an immediate need for aluminum or stainless welding.

-Jeramy

[JWD]

well its about an extra $800 plus 7% tax! thats without the spool gun attachment. i may drop down bellow the border to get it in the states with the exchange rates and all! then sneak it over the border to escape the duty fee!

i actually dont know how much aluminum i will be doing! would i be able to try some Al with the feed from the system itself? if i end up doin Al i may just save the 600 on the spoolgun and put it towards a TIG! my projects, i dont want to learn to TIG for, i want to do now is just welding stainless steel sheet(1-1.5mm), so would the mm 210 be a good machine for that without too much warpage?

i dont know the welding lingo or techniques so what is "spray arc" or spray whatever it is and what is "short arc" mean?

thanks all, and if you want to send me anything send to

[email protected]

[HAWK]

JWD,

Thanks for the email. In the meantime here's a few answers. 1.5mm stainless sheet is roughly .059 inches. That's about the thickness of a piece of printer paper. Mig will be way too hot! I think you really need to consider the TIG process for something this thin. What are you making? As for running aluminum through you mig torch-yes it is possible with some success: Use a stiffer filler wire like 5356 in an .035 to make feeding easier. That's the problem. Aluminum filler wire is soft and flexible. It does not feed well in a standard mig torch because the drive rollers in the feeder don't push the soft metal wire very well. Feeding will likely be erratic and this will add to your frustration in the learning process. Here's the "lingo" thing. Short arc is where the filler wire actully touches the welding material and the "short" in the electrical "circuit" creates the arc causing the direct transfer of the filler wire. At the same time a portion of the base metal is cut away by this electrical current and filled in with the filler wire. This is the lowest heat input process for mig welding. Spray arc is a very high heat transfer process. The arc amps are set high enough in combination with the wire speed set slow enough to produce stream of tiny molten metal droplets from the torch nozzle to the base material being welded. These droplets being transferred across the arc create a bright spray of white metal and a hissing sound - like form a spray paint can. Hence the term spray arc. Spray arc typically uses hotter shielding gases with oxygen in them to help preheat the wire.

I am selling a Maxstar 200DX for a very reasonable price. It has built in pulse and goes from 1-200 amps. It will not do aluminum. It is the direct current cousin of the Dynasty 200. It is an excellent machine for stainless steel. It weighs less than 40 pounds an draws about 21 amps at its rated duty cycle. I am selling because my business has grown to a point where I need a Dynasty 200 on a regular basis. I'll send you more in the email.

[JWD]

well i would like to be able to do stainless steel 20 guage to 22 guage. im pretty sure that isnt even close(reletively) to paper! maybe i would even try using exhaust tubing.

ive never been to a metal supply shop, so i am wondering if its possible to get stainless steel CONES of various shapes and diameters and thicknesses? if not would an exhaust place have that type of thing? what can i expect the cost of metal to be?

ill be moving to my new house for about 4 days so i wouldnt be able to respond! then after that i can look at welders and maybe get one in a week or so! thanks again HAWK!

[HAWK]

JWD,

The 210 should do fine. It is rated from 22 guage to 3/8" in a single pass. It comes with a reversable .030/.035 drive rollers. If the .030 proves to be to hot, then buy a 0.23 drive roller and use.023 wire. It will feed just fine through the gun and liner that comes with the machine. I'd go ahead and order the .023 dirve roller anyway. You'll be happer with the bead appearance on the thinner sheets. You can use a 98% argon/ 2% oxygen for the stainless wire. Your dealer may recommend some type of tri mix-it's usually more expensive. Maybe they will let you try both??? I just use the plain 98/2. It works fine. You can probably use 309 or 310 stainless filler for your sheet metal work. The 300 series stainless is pretty common. Buy the smallest spools that will fit your machine to start. Stainless filler is not cheap.

That depends on the shop. You'll probably have to order such pieces. If you find cones at a muffler shop they will probably be aluminized steel(weld with plain steel filler like ER70S-6). I have seen different fittings like you are describing at an industrial supply house for pipe welding in 304 and 316 type stainless. Ferguson Enterprises is a large supplier here in the States. You are looking for odd ball fittings-expect the cost to be high. I don't know exactly. It seems like a 2x1 reducing cone in 304ss in schedule 40 runs about 10.00 US dollars. Shop around-check the internet. Try searching with www.google.com

GOOD LUCK WITH THE MOVE
ANYBODY ON THE FORUM GOT ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR JWD?

[JWD]

ok i will probably go for making my own cones ect. out of sheet metal. im probably going to get the mm 210 with the spectrum 375 plasma cutter! maybe the plasma, bacause i dont want to get the torch set up! im shutting down my internet connection very soon so i can move to my other house so i wont be responding for a bit! so thanks alot HAWK, you really helped out!

[HAWK]

JWD,

Your welcome. I hoped this information helps you. Let us know what you get. ALSO GET THE PLASMA-THE OCY-ACETYLENE TORCH WON'T WORK FOR STAINLESS.

[JWD]

yes im back up on the i-net! the new place is... alright to say the least! well atleast im getting my shop set up!

ya i dont whats the torch set up, well because i dont want to bother with having to rent out the big tanks! whatever...

um so just some final approval needed here, millermatic 210 with .023 drive roll, and the spectrum 375, would that be a good start to the first home shop i will have?

this is a semi derterant to my plans of using stainless steel, i found an online price quote saying $60 u.s. for a 4x2 piece of 22
guage sheet of stainless, is this right? is there a sortof base number to each cost of metal per pound?

thats about it for now i guess!

thanks

[HAWK]

JWD,

That price on ss sounds high. I priced some this morning. It is 304 stainless, 22 guage, in a 4 feet x 8 feet sheet. I found it for 70 US dollars one place and 93 US dollars another place. Check around. Also most suppliers will sell the 4 x 8 sheets cheaper because they don't have to cut it.