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How does Miller 211 handle thick materials out of position? Structural H-beams

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  • A_DAB_will_do
    replied
    Yes, the difference is, in my opionion, that using 0.030" wire on thick base metal runs an increased risk of lack of fusion defects. This particular case, welding 1/8" thick sheet isn't too far outside the envelope for 0.030" wire. It will probably work. But I'd hate for a novice to read this and assume they can use 0.030" anywhere and believe that it will work just fine.

    This is one of those gray areas that I think most welders don't fully understand.

    You're not the first person I've heard comment that these smaller/mid-sized MIG machines run 0.030" wire smoother or 'better'.

    While this is often true, a weld produced using a smoother running arc is not always the same as a sound weld. If the filler metal can't physically deliver enough arc energy to the puddle, then the likelihood of lack of fusion defects increases. I can produce a beautiful single pass fillet weld on 1/2" thick plate with 0.030" wire. But I'd never guarantee that there is 100% fusion into the base metal, particularly if I were weaving the arc at all.

    If you haven't made a particular weld and broken it to check for 100% fusion in to the base metal, then you don't know that it's a sound weld. Since most people don't want to go to the extent of produceing test welds and breaking them, they're much better off relying on the manufacturer's recommendations for which wire diameters are suitable for a given base metal thickness.

    So many people on this and other forums are all over novices for using small 110V MIG machines to weld heavy sheet or plate. But they think nothing themselves of using the smallest diameter wire possible so they can have the easiest time welding or the best looking weld bead possible.

    The recommendations on appropriate wire thickness for base metal aren't just pulled out of thin air.

    Yes, there is a great deal that can be done to widen the window that a given diameter wire is suitable for. Pre-heating, beveling, using stringers versus weave beads, etc. A welder can even deposit more weld metal than is strictly necessary(and most of us do this all the time).

    But for the novices out there, particularly if you're working on something that is structural, load-bearing, or if the failure of a given weld could cause damage or injury, don't disregard the manufacturer's recommendations for what diameter of filler metal and what machine settings to use.

    Practice and increase your skills to adapt to the settings needed to make a sound weld. Don't just dial in the machine to settings you can use to make a pretty weld bead.

    Just one man's opinion, and I'll get off my soap box now...

    Originally posted by elvis View Post
    The consensus seems to be that the smaller machines like 030 wire. I have welded thicker than .125 material with 030 wire with success. I think there is a difference between what is on paper and the real world...


    Btw, got your pm and will get back to you tomorrow.

    Leave a comment:


  • elvis
    replied
    The consensus seems to be that the smaller machines like 030 wire. I have welded thicker than .125 material with 030 wire with success. I think there is a difference between what is on paper and the real world...


    Btw, got your pm and will get back to you tomorrow.

    Leave a comment:


  • clint738
    replied
    Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
    My first choice of wire would be .030 and gas. My second choice would be .035 gas flux core and the gas of your choice. The smaller machines do better with .030 soild...Bob
    Just noticed this wire chart shows .030 solid wire is to small for over 1/8" material.
    http://store.cyberweld.com/choosewire.html

    So would .035 solid wire run ok for the millermatic 211 for stuff this thick?


    Or would the flux core .045 work better in the 211 for materials .170 to .250" thick?

    Leave a comment:


  • clint738
    replied
    Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
    My first choice of wire would be .030 and gas. My second choice would be .035 gas flux core and the gas of your choice. The smaller machines do better with .030 soild...Bob
    Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
    Should have no problem with steel that thin. I would use .030 and 75/25, as already said.
    I will keep .030 in mind when picking up some Hobart wire after getting the welder.

    Leave a comment:


  • clint738
    replied
    Originally posted by Thrutraffic View Post
    I'm a newbie and a 211 owner. I've done a good bit of that range of material thickness. I would think as easy as it seems to be for that machine to burn through it is surely capable of doing what you want if you know what you're doing.

    (yeah, I know who's doing the burning through :-))

    In fact I don't use the AutoSet feature much as it seems to always run too hot for the material. I always use the chart guide to get started and manually adjust from there.
    I always used the chart guide as a starting point on my Miller 140 since I never had a bottle to try the auto-set feature.

    Here is what I am thinking.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2b5ba5v6u...t%20Design.JPG

    I checked it with a uniform load of 250lbs per foot (a lot more than what I should have stored up there)
    Uniform load of 20lbs per foot to account for the weight of the material (more than probably needed)
    On the left I have a point load in case I want to ever put a small hoist to lift stuff (have it over rated too for what I will need)

    This will have a top surface about 4ft wide.
    The 3 fixed points are the vertical columns. I will have H beams running across as braces at the 3 fixed positions and at point #2.
    I don't want to use an H-beam as a brace at point #1 because it will prevent the trolley from running back and forth on the 10ft span.
    I will weld angle iron on the under side of the top of the beam and run it across like bridging to brace the beams, spacing will be every 2ft.

    On top I will put flat expanded metal. I was considering plywood, but don't want to be running a grinder and set the plywood on fire above me. Also considered using light gauge steel plate, but not sure thick I would need to go to not have too much deflection with bracing at 2ft. Also, don't want to go too thick if I went with plate since that would be a lot of weight.

    I will try to sketch something up more official looking when I get closer to buying materials.

    I am really wondering if I will need to alter the cement slab for this in the shop. I think it is a 4" cement slab.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thrutraffic
    replied
    I'm a newbie and a 211 owner. I've done a good bit of that range of material thickness. I would think as easy as it seems to be for that machine to burn through it is surely capable of doing what you want if you know what you're doing.

    (yeah, I know who's doing the burning through :-))

    In fact I don't use the AutoSet feature much as it seems to always run too hot for the material. I always use the chart guide to get started and manually adjust from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Should have no problem with steel that thin. I would use .030 and 75/25, as already said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Renagade
    replied
    Can you give us a picture or drawing of what you want to do

    Leave a comment:


  • aametalmaster
    replied
    My first choice of wire would be .030 and gas. My second choice would be .035 gas flux core and the gas of your choice. The smaller machines do better with .030 soild...Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • clint738
    replied
    There will be a LOT of T-joints vertical and lap joints both overhead and flat welded.

    I've never heard of beveling on those 2 joints? Is that common?

    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Renagade
    replied
    Bevel your joint, 035 wire, 75/25 gas - burn it in

    Leave a comment:


  • gsims
    replied
    Not sure on the out if position part...have not done what your plan is but the 211 states it will weld up to 3/8 on both solid or flux core both at full power (10). Difference is the wire feed rate is quite a bit less with the flux core.

    .230 is slightly less than 1/4 so I would think it would penitrate OK for you. Power settings for 1/4 is I think around 6 or 7. Might have to let it catch its breath once and a while but it should weld it OK.

    Leave a comment:

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