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MM 211 Concerns

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  • Silverback
    started a topic MM 211 Concerns

    MM 211 Concerns

    I finally unboxed my MM211mvp, and cleared my old HH135 off my welder stand, set everything up and gave it a test drive last night. I only had a little bit of time by the time I got everything up and running, but I ran across a couple of issues:
    • I've had _no_ luck with the autoset. I loaded the spool of Hobart .030" ER70S6, set the knob to .030 and I can't get the weld to lay flat to save my life. I get fairly nice tacks, but when I run a bead it looks like I'm building volcanos (they're smooth, not like if I wasn't getting gas flow, but have a pronounced hump in the middle):

      In this pic I started (from top right to bottom left) with it set to the middle of the 1/8" range (it's 1/8" wall box), then tried it at the top of the 1/8" setting, then finally at the 3/16" setting (you can see it burned through at the end). I have good penetration, doesn't seem to be the lack of surface prep (that piece only has a few rust spots on it, it's nowhere near as bad as it looks in the pic, I cut a weld apart and it's not porous...), it just sits high like that. I'm hoping that I'm doing something wrong because if not that kind of thing pretty much makes the autoset useless (FWIW, I've made exactly the same part before with the HH135 and have no problem laying down a nice flat bead, even with the settings off I can adjust with gun travel...)
    • I think the flow meter might be wonky- I'm used to setting it somewhere _slightly_ higher (one or 2 ticks) than I need, pulling the trigger and getting exactly the gas flow that I need. this one, with a full, new bottle (that is reading the correct pressure...) with it set to maybe 21-22- pull the trigger and it drops to 11 (on my other flow meters i think I'd normally see about 17-18), and when I let go it doesn't always come back to the original setting. Weirder for me, if I close the bottle valve and quickly pull the trigger it will jump past 30 when I let go, and if I do it a couple of times will come pretty close to pegging the flow gauge before it it finally drops from the bottle being closed. Anyone see anything like that before?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Silverback; 12-27-2012, 10:45 AM.

  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Go2 is right. I CAN use the as feature. It is more of a hassle though, especially for thin sheet.

    Leave a comment:


  • go2building
    replied
    Originally posted by the45er View Post
    I try not the blame the arrow because usually it's the Indian that's the problem. Having said this, there sure are a lot of other "Indians" out there who seem to be shooting the same defective arrow!
    Just like you'll find lots of meat lovers in a steak house.
    Most of the market for the 211 is for hobby and newer welders, the ones who are just starting out or don't weld all the time. If you don't like the auto set, don't use it!!!
    As stated I don't see you paid more for auto set over non, maybe you paid more for Miller over other brands.
    Just my .02

    Leave a comment:


  • the45er
    replied
    Thanks for some sensible feedback on my rant about Miller's "AutoSet"

    Let me start out by saying I really like my new MM211. However, the combination of me and the auto-set on my machine makes a bad team. If the auto-set was only off by one click of a knob, I would have no problem with that. In my experience so far, especially on thinner metal thicknesses, I've had to set the Auto-Set at least two settings down in order not to have to race through the weld or burn a hole in the metal.

    Now, I accept the fact that this is a combination of my welding skills as well as the machine itself. I try not the blame the arrow because usually it's the Indian that's the problem. Having said this, there sure are a lot of other "Indians" out there who seem to be shooting the same defective arrow!

    Leave a comment:


  • Doughboyracer
    replied
    I don't agree with you...

    Originally posted by the45er View Post
    ....this makes good sense.....until you think about the fact that if the auto set was designed for people "that don't have experience", then what happens when they set it and continue to burn through their tubing and can't get good welds when the machine is set as per the instructions???!!! Talk about frustrating to the newbie home welding hobbyist! You pay a premium for an "auto set" feature that after ruining a bunch of metal you learn that the auto set feature really doesn't work well and that you have to learn to set the appropriate wire speed - voltage - metal thickness - type-of-weld combination through trial and error experience. OK, I accept that, but why did Millermatic build a welder that doesn't work as advertised? I would have rather saved the money and bought a 220 V unit without a worthless feature. If I'm forced to learn the machine by trial-and-error anyway, I'd rather have not paid for the auto set!
    I use my auto set all the time. But I know it is not magic. It gets me close and i adjust the ONE knob as needed...just means one less knob to turn to get a good weld...and God knows I need this as simple as posible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Interesting, I was wondering how that all worked out across the model line and which units had the wire speed tracking. I knew my 180 does not have it, but I have seen literature discussing 180's that do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Danny
    replied
    Originally posted by Silverback View Post
    The reason that they won't give ipm <--> knob setting is that miller uses fairly agressive wire speed tracking (the wire speed changes when the power changes, even if the wire speed knob stays the same). Honestly that is one of the reasons I stayed away from their smaller machines before, I find it more difficult to set compared to some of the smaller Hobarts and Lincolns (which use little or no wire speed tracking)
    Your information would be true for the MM 135/ 175 or the earlier production run of the MM 140/180.

    The Auto-set MM 140, MM 180, and MM 211 do not contain the wire speed tracking circuitry.

    The early production run MM 140/180 allowed you to turn the wire speed tracking circuitry on or off. Allowing you to make the unit a constant wire speed machine if wanted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Silverback
    replied
    The reason that they won't give ipm <--> knob setting is that miller uses fairly agressive wire speed tracking (the wire speed changes when the power changes, even if the wire speed knob stays the same). Honestly that is one of the reasons I stayed away from their smaller machines before, I find it more difficult to set compared to some of the smaller Hobarts and Lincolns (which use little or no wire speed tracking)

    Leave a comment:


  • Shark Bait
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve83 View Post
    The chart is in the owner's manual; both the paper version, and the PDF. 4 pages' worth, IIRC.
    I don't think the charts in the manual are what Steve is asking for.

    I wrote Miller and asked them three questions:

    1. Do you have a chart that shows what the wire speed (IPM)is at any dial setting (10 to 100)?

    2. Do you have a chart that shows what the voltage is at a specific dial setting (1 to 10)?

    3. Do you have any articles which describe in detail exactly how the Auto-Set feature works? Not how to set it but how it works?

    Here is there answer:

    We do not have any charts saying specifically what wire speed and voltage you are setting on the front of your 211. For this type of machine the best way to set your parameters is by looking at the chart on the inside door of the machine. There are recommended voltage and wire speed settings for many wires, gases, and material thicknesses.

    The Auto-Set feature works by sensing the position of the two knobs on the front of the machine and setting the wirespeed and voltage to predetermined values for the wire size and material thickness selected. The Auto-Set feature was designed for use with solid steel weld wire and 75/25 gas.

    Regards,


    Dave Miller
    Service Technician

    Leave a comment:


  • Cgotto6
    replied
    I don't think you really paid any more money because of the auto set feature. Since it now comes on all entry level miller mig units it has become standard equipment. A miller 175 was the same price point as the current 180 with a/s.

    Still be satisfied knowing you have a very useful, well built machine. I have been able to get decent welds with the a/s, just need to modulate travel speed, stick out, etc. I found that it was just as much dialing in to work as manually setting it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Silverback
    replied
    Can anyone tell me if these 2 regulators are compatible? The first is the one that came with the welder that is acting funny, the second is one that I found in my pile of stuff that I'm not sure what it came from/was originally for (it was in the box with an ebay purchase):

    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • the45er
    replied
    Yes, but....

    Originally posted by Country Metals View Post
    You can't expect an auto-set feature to work as well as experience. Auto-set can't take into account for joint design, position, or skill of the operator. I believe the auto set was more to get more people into welding that don't have experience.
    ....this makes good sense.....until you think about the fact that if the auto set was designed for people "that don't have experience", then what happens when they set it and continue to burn through their tubing and can't get good welds when the machine is set as per the instructions???!!! Talk about frustrating to the newbie home welding hobbyist! You pay a premium for an "auto set" feature that after ruining a bunch of metal you learn that the auto set feature really doesn't work well and that you have to learn to set the appropriate wire speed - voltage - metal thickness - type-of-weld combination through trial and error experience. OK, I accept that, but why did Millermatic build a welder that doesn't work as advertised? I would have rather saved the money and bought a 220 V unit without a worthless feature. If I'm forced to learn the machine by trial-and-error anyway, I'd rather have not paid for the auto set!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Country beat me to it. Well said. It is not possible to have a magic button that can factor every single aspect into its calculations. Just dial it in manually like everybody else and you will be off and running.

    Leave a comment:


  • Country Metals
    replied
    You can't expect an auto-set feature to work as well as experience. Auto-set can't take into account for joint design, position, or skill of the operator. I believe the auto set was more to get more people into welding that don't have experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • the45er
    replied
    I wish I would have read this thread first

    Then I wouldn't have had to start a new post. It looks like I'm not the only one who believes that the auto settings on the MM211 run too hot!

    Leave a comment:

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