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Uphill vs. downhill Mig tests?

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  • Uphill vs. downhill Mig tests?

    This topic has been beaten to death but does anyone have any pictures or links of tests comparing uphill mig strength to downhill mig strength? Maybe some X-ray shots of them. We got a new ag mechanics instructor at school and he told me that there's practically no difference and one is no stronger than the other. I liked to fall out when he said that. He seems to be very intelligent but I just couldn't wrap my head around this one. I'd love to kinda put him in his place cuz he seems to have a slightly inflated head.

    Anything is apreciated but I really want something to show him.
    Miller Digital Elite inferno
    Miller MP-10 passive helmet
    Hobart Stickmate 250/160 ac/dc

  • #2
    Uphill vs. downhill Mig tests?

    welding tips and tricks did a segment on that. Weldingtipsandtricks.com

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    • #3
      My server is too slow to really watch vids but in theory with skilled operator it shouldn't matter as long as the material is deposited correctly. What was the consensus from tips and tricks?

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      • #4
        The man from Tips and Tricks Always says vert up for best penetration. That's the same thing I've heard from everybody and all my own destructive tests have shown. But I want something more than a hammer and a vice to show him
        Miller Digital Elite inferno
        Miller MP-10 passive helmet
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        • #5
          Yes, very up will increase penetration but that doesnt neccesarily effect the quality of deposit. If you are just fishing to prove something good luck. Disregard his "slightly inflated head" and see what you can learn. Nothing to gain by inflating your own head, there is probably a reason he is the instructor and you are the student.
          I'd love to kinda put him in his place
          This is what this question is all about. His place is teacher.

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          • #6
            This is far too simplistic of a question, for a "one size fits all" answer.
            Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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            • #7
              Uphill vs. downhill Mig tests?

              Welding tips and tricks cut some coupons and polished them to show the difference in penetration.
              I personally use vertical up and down for different circumstances

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              • #8
                So just because he's the teacher I should take it as gospel? I shouldn't have my own doubts or ideas about what he says? He said that welding uphill is a waste of effort and that it's just as strong as down hill. He made no caveats like "unless it's a certain thickness" and in particular we were talking about 3/16 thick tubing. I have never ever heard a word anywhere that downhill is as strong as up. Now I do agree on thin stuff there is no difference but for heavy duty fab I have my doubts and I'd hate to see something fail and hurt someone because of what he thinks. I'm not dead set on him being wrong I just have my doubts about what he's saying.

                I come to the miller forums for the wealth of knowledge that it's members have not to argue. So given that you're fabricating something with 3/16" or thicker material... Up or down?
                Last edited by 2tay530; 07-25-2012, 03:21 PM.
                Miller Digital Elite inferno
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                Hobart Stickmate 250/160 ac/dc

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                • #9
                  I think a lot of the weld depends who is doing it. I have seen some pretty crummy downhills and some really nice ones. I also would do a test to suit what you are thinking. I have never been anywhere where they make you do a downhill for a weld test...Bob
                  Bob Wright

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                  • #10
                    Uphill vs. downhill Mig tests?

                    AWS D1.1 GMAW 3G 1" beveled steel plate cert tests are done vertical up.

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                    • #11
                      Penetration is different than fusion. The original question was is it just as strong? I will agree there are places for uphill and I would agree with you that the blanket statement that up is a waste of time is incorrect but if you are learning putting this guy on the spot is a poor way to start a career where there is something to learn from everyone.

                      My first welding instructor at a comm college was really a poor welder for the most part, maybe at one point he was excellent but at that point hdidn'tnt much care a whole lot in some respect but he had a keen eye on the job market and was almost an expert ifiguringng out who was suited for what. he could size someone up early on and figure out how to work on the moneymaker. I was somewhat a slow learner, had a couple guys blaze past me in multi process and I spent the whole time on sticks, 7018, 6010 and when the union hall called him for 4 candidates for an upcoming apprenticeship, he sent 4 of us young guys off with marching papers, demand was good, got scale pay most of the time, but hdidn'tnt pick the best and unlikely gonna pick someone that gives him a bind at every turn.

                      Maybe you don't care, maybe this is all entertainment, I don't know the details but I have made more than one of these mistakes over the years, a couple I regret.

                      This for other young guys, maybe not for you, no reason to read all the rest of this babble then but people call the schools. Sometimes they are lookintechnicalinical skill sets, to some extent, but just as often they want someone teachable. These guys can figure out someones work ethic and how they listen to instruction etc. Its different than what they expect from a full journeyman with experience.

                      This guy when I was there had me work on 6010 open butt 7018 out, vert and OH, passed the x ray and was off to work on some big ot shutdown. I took a blueprint reading class from this guy too and and metallurgymetalury class, both he wasproficientffeciendon't.remember remeber but a pinch of metals, still don't know anything about it but he kicked me around about 7018 until I understood a bit about it,,, again he must have already had it in his mind where he was going to direct me to. When I got in the apprenticeship I was ahead of most of the guys and way ahead of a couple that joined thru other avenues that came in with,,, yes, took that class for a week and my plates were better than his so I quit. They aint worth a pinch of ****5 to this day. You might need a favorable opinion of you some day. I wasnt always so subtle either but today would ask the question on its own merits.

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                      • #12
                        I remember I talk cars a bit with this guy, he had a handful of good running older cars he bought at the right price, to this day I believe some consideration was given to the fact I had a good runnng service worthy modest car with good tires on it. I remember it was a question the BA had in an interview,,,, you have a good running car?

                        There were some minority quotas in place at that time, 2 black guys got in, one he gave a lecture to about the car and the other had about 6 years of college, right next to an engineering degree and some wondered wtf,,, why does this guy want to join this outfit. The one, never seen him again and ran across the other a couple yrs later pushing a gang for some big outfit that snatched him up like warm toast. I heard he scored higher on this mechanical apptitude test they gave of anyone this outfit had ever given it to.
                        I scored high too, was top in my area of about 40 or so and I had other appointment and screamed thru it in about half the time listening to a lot of groans and just happened to get (I was going to engine school at the time) well sheer luck it was a diagram of a 2 stroke diesel engine and I got it all right, the BA mentioned it, he said,,, looking over my high school record correctly surmised that I wasnt much for common school but got the 4.0 in the classes I took at college. He had some reservations on how I would like apprentice school but said, you scored so hi that I got to hire you,, ha. Probably the wrong thing for him to tell me,,, hahaha It must have been a question they really looked at, I was 19 at the time and the only one that got it all right.

                        Having said that I didnt pass on a number of other opportunities to shoot myself in the foot along the way. Price of being young.

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