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MM211 Voltage & wire speed dials?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by eecervantes83 View Post
    These old. Welders were brought up without a digital display. And for that reason expect the same from the newer generation. I do just fine without the display. But I'm always curious about these details. l know theirs many variables .. & why hasn't anyone answered. My simple question instead of beating around the bush . Where could a get a plug & play voltage display to add on my Miller 211. Thanks.

    Completely pointless to have, what can you look at the display while your welding, baically its just eye candy. You turn your machine to 17 volts, there is 17 volts there. What, you need a volt meter to verify it there? Besides your starting out with ocv anyways.

    Its the guys that go out and buy a welder, then can't figure out how to use it. Thats why we get guys attempting to run mild steel or Aluminum wire off a CC power sourse. They don't have a clue. Or can't figure out why Straight Argon doesn't work for steel, or C25 for Aluminum. Then come here and whine about it. If you can't weld and have never taken even a basic welding course, we can't help you. Some of these questions are so bizzare, Its a wonder how the OP managed to get out of bed.

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    • #32
      Since people like to want some things that serve no real purpose to getting a good weld...How about a heads up display in my auto darkening helmet to watch while i am welding. Maybe picture in picture so i can watch sports channels at the same time.
      Nick
      Miller 252 Mig
      Miller Cricket XL
      Millermatic 150 Mig
      Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
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      Jet Lathe and Mill
      Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
      DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
      Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
      20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
      Propane Forge
      60" X 60" router/plasma table

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
      Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
      and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

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      • #33
        Originally posted by monte55 View Post
        Since people like to want some things that serve no real purpose to getting a good weld...How about a heads up display in my auto darkening helmet to watch while i am welding. Maybe picture in picture so i can watch sports channels at the same time.

        Voltage, wire speed and/or amperage settings serve no real purpose to getting a good weld?

        That's good to know.

        So the consensus here is to tune everything to sound and sound.

        Good enough for me.

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        • #34
          So the consensus here is to tune everything to sound and sound

          I don't get this.
          Nick
          Miller 252 Mig
          Miller Cricket XL
          Millermatic 150 Mig
          Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
          2-O/A outfits
          Jet Lathe and Mill
          Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
          DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
          Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
          20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
          Propane Forge
          60" X 60" router/plasma table

          www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
          Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
          and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

          Comment


          • #35
            Sandy, you're twisting my words as well as putting words in my mouth. When you say things like "based on that logic then ... " and follow it with some twisted presumption of yours .... you put words in my mouth. I said the numbers were a starting point. I said they serve a purpose. I said they get you in the ballpark. Then you implied I said an entire diatribe of crap I never said. I noticed you did not address the points I did make, only the points you tried to make it look like I made.

            In the winter of 2006 I was paired with a fresh young weldor who had just gotten his B-Pressure Ticket about 4 months prior. We were given a header joint to weld on top of an economiser on a recovery boiler. Extremely tight and cramped quarters. 14" pipe, 5G position, very heavy wall, maybe 1.25" or 1.375". the root and hot pass had been put in by the night shift and we were to fill and cap with 1/8" 8018-B2. We were given a weld procedure with a minimal preheat requirement (think it was 50F) and a range of amperages we could use. We had wonderful welding machines to use; a pair of Miller XMT350s and they were only about 20 or 25 feet away from us making set-up quite easy. We still used remotes because of the very cramped quarters making getting in and out of the spot slow and difficult. Before we crawled in we both stood by our machines with remote in hand and set the machine. I chose 128 amps and the young fellow chose 125 amps. It was winter so we put the tiger torch to it to warm it up to about body temperature for about 6" either side and started welding. After we'd filled about 1/2 of it I lowered my heat a little and then a little more at around 3/4 full. The pipe was getting hot so the rod was running too hot and needed to be turned down.

            I noticed the young fellow was starting to do a lot of grinding and wasn't keeping up with me anymore like he had been at the start; burning rod for rod with me. I waited for him to stop grinding and asked him what the problem was. He said his machine was starting to act funny. We decided to switch machines. I passed him my stinger and remote between the tubes and he passed me his. He worked his way to a standing position so he could see his new machine and set it back to 125 amps. I didn't know where I'd had it set by that time. I wasn't looking. When I saw him do this it dawned on me what his problem was and I suggested he try a lower heat. He became abrasive with me, said I shouldn't tell him how to weld, etc. etc. I shut my yap and gave him his space and went back to work with his machine that was running perfectly normal except it was set too high. I finished my fill, capped it and cleaned it up and crawled out and had a smoke in our secret hiding spot around the corner under the stairwell. (No smoking on the job) I came back to see how he was doing. He was grinding like mad and still had at least 1/4" of fill left and he was angry. I climbed in closer to take a look. He had massive undercut the whole length of each pass and huge wagon tracks and unsightly lumps and bumps all over the place. It was awful. I looked over my shoulder and saw his machine was still set at 125 but mine was at 113. I was unable to talk to him about it. He was too angry. It seemed that now my machine was even worse than his and he reached through the tubes and got his own machine back and set it to 125. I cleaned up our area for the rest of the shift while he fought and swore and bruised his knuckles slamming things around. He never finished his weld. Night shift finished it. I was partnered up with another guy the next day and never worked with him again for the rest of the job so we never did talk about it. They ended up skidding him about a month or two later for his temper tantrums. He could have avoided all of it if he had listened to this "old weldor" and disregarded the numbers he was stuck on and just adjusted his heat by how it was welding. I never ran into him again so I don't know if he ever learned how to weld.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by monte55 View Post
              So the consensus here is to tune everything to sound and sound

              I don't get this.
              Sound? I normally weld wearing earplugs. Noisy jobsites.
              So I don't get that either but some people do apparently adjust their heat by sound. That's a skill I never had the luxury to learn while cutting my teeth in heavy industrial settings.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sandy View Post
                No one has yet stated what is wrong with knowing what the actual voltage, wire speed or amperage is. Very well could be that knowing isn't necessary for many but I have a hard time understanding the concept that more info or knowledge is bad.

                Don't really need a speedometer, tachometer or odometer either. I could drive just fine without any of those.
                It is not a question of more info is bad, at least not for me in this thread about adding a volt meter or an amp meter to a mm211, but I still have not received an answer to my question to the people asking for a meter.

                If you had a meter- what does having this info do for you?

                ( sandy, you already answered with the WPS) but the folks asking for a meter have not responded to what they would do with the info provided by a meter on a MM 211.

                And it is the same thing in your analogy of the tach on a car; what do you do with the info? It may as well be random letters unless you know what the info you are getting from the tachometer is for. Just because it is reading engine RPM doesn't actually help the everyday driver one bit.

                More knowledge isn't bad- asking Miller to put a meter in the mm 211 or mm212
                Or Lincoln's equivalent class machines doesn't make sense, to me at least, because it doesn't matter and will only add $ to the machine and provide information one doesn't really need. Thrutraffic admitted he couldn't find any manufacturer that does this in on these class of machines.

                It's a tachometer on an automatic
                Ed Conley
                http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
                MM252
                MM211
                Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
                TA185
                Miller 125c Plasma 120v
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                You can call me Bacchus

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                • #38
                  I'm Certified
                  7 yrs Welding &
                  Would like a display!
                  .
                  Miller Bobcat 225NT onan
                  Millermatic 211
                  Spoolmate 100
                  (Retapped to fit regular mig tips)
                  Work better & less parts to stock.
                  Miller 130xp
                  T/A Dragster 85 (portability 11 pounds)
                  Oxygen/Acetylene torch set 50'
                  2. 4-1/2" grinders
                  1. 9" grinder
                  14" Makita chop saw
                  1/2" Aircat impact gun 900#

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                  • #39
                    Then buy a machine that has a display.

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                    • #40
                      MM211 Voltage & wire speed dials?

                      Check ebay

                      Just do a search for voltmeter.

                      http://shop.mobileweb.ebay.com/searchresults;PdsSession=d0813edd13a0a5aa66663d06f fe899e4?kw=Volt+meter&cmd=SREF&mfs=SBCLK&acimp=0&i sNewKw=true

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                      • #41
                        Buy a cheap VOM meter epoxy it to a convenient spot on your machine and wire it across your stinger cable and work cable. Voila, digital readout, no?
                        Meltedmetal
                        ---Meltedmetal

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                        • #42
                          Just expanding my understanding of the dials.

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                          • #43
                            Well...
                            Isn't this a case of digging up the dead scrolls? That was a lot too review.

                            jbs4radio, you've been doing some home work. I couldn't enlarge it to see closely, but it looked crafty? Must have taken some effort? I did read your picture's explanation so I caught the gist.. Well done. I'm giving you extra points.

                            They say If your digging a grave it's best to use a shovel. Well, with a long handled spade, I cherry picked a line and I'm going to run with it.

                            "Voltage, wire speed and/or amperage settings serve no real purpose to getting a good weld?"

                            I didn't add the question mark, and I'm gonna say no.
                            They serve a purpose, but is it a real purpose to getting a good weld? IMO no.

                            The gas...I think It serves a real purpose. Without it, things falls apart.
                            The voltage and WFS are variables, that depending on the skill of the operator, can make the day or make a mess, even when the dials are dialed in?
                            But it starts with the gas. Gas mixtures, coverage, that has the greatest effect on what you can accomplish with real purpose.

                            Because, a good weld is subjective and the conversation revolved around readings of voltage and WFS (amperage) to make a good weld, set parameters for a good weld, and the fact I read all those responses, I'm going to toss out some things I didn't see mentioned, or mentioned directly, and some I'll mimic that are worth repeating.

                            Why they don't have meters, and why they do, my opinions, and those previously mentioned by others.

                            Why they don't?

                            - Because a knowledgeable welder knows what the requirements are to achieve a short circuit, globular, or spray transfer mode. He understands how the shielding gas affects the occurrences of transfer, and sets voltage and WFS secondary to it's offered range of capabilities.

                            - Because these power sources offer welding capabilities on thicker materials, a variety of material types with greater process adaptability then a 140 or 185 amp rating, while now capable of performing these modes of metal transfer, it's done still with known limits to such capabilities and duration when doing so.
                            Duty cycle limits and volt/amp out put characteristics stand out. Most don't grasp that who buy them, and then ask why?

                            - Because they are marketed to make welding easier, power source setting charts and auto set functions cover these basic operational ranges and it's assumed the operator will figure out how to adjust and compensate for the variables of fabrication.

                            - Because someone who wants to weld bigger and greater things with less knowledge and a bigger budget thinks, if I can do this with 90 amps then 140 must be better. And if 140 is better, then 185 has to be the bomb. But if a 185 is the bomb and for a few bucks more he can buy a 210 which does everything and more with all that digital display to make it easy technology coming in $500 cheaper then a Bertha...with meters, what's he going buy after being sold those virtues not knowing more or better?

                            - Because with an easy to follow instruction manual, a cross referencing chart, built in push button make it easy with smarter then you selection setting technology, who really needs digital display meters? But like guys who scratch their sweet spot to a dial, if you want to remember 17.5volts and 175ipm as the thing to remember, convert away?

                            Why they didn't use display meters?
                            I'm in agreement with the previous posters one who said, they don't have to, It's not required. Something like that?
                            I'm sure however that if you can source a display, read a schematic of an electrical drawing, how hard could it be to wire something into place if you can find the space to mount it?
                            Really...It's not that complicated or old school in approach to not set to a displayed value.
                            If it was, they'd make the owners manual thicker?


                            When they do add display to show voltage, WFS/ amperage conversion on the power source or feeder...

                            - It's because numbers offer a sense of affirmation. Seemingly a lot of people need that?

                            - It's because when someone in a different tax bracket needs accountability and a place to lay blame when things go wrong, it always comes down to numbers.

                            - Because someone in a different job, different tax bracket, can say with a degree of certainty, here's the WPS recipe, these numbers say stir this much and bake at this temperature, with these ingredients you'll have a cake. Not a flapjack, but a cake.

                            - Because it appears measurable to yet another guy who insures he's getting good cake.

                            - It's because that crowd wants to walk around looking at steady numbers not a bright arc.

                            Having said all that...good to see some of you still around. Old as this post is, it's been viewed a zillion times, but what, 17 responders?
                            It seems to have out lasted some of those who replied in 2012?

                            My fresh perspective.

                            Some where written in the old testament was a formula for calculating heat required and equating amperage to electrode diameter. Something about an amp for every thousands of an inch? That ring a bell?
                            Buddy made a chart and a fine chart it is I'm sure. But to what purpose or necessity it serves is what is called into question?

                            Well, before you go and get your panties in a knot, let me explain further as I can see this is an issue that divided the ranks of replies to the original posting?

                            Long before wire feed processes there was stick welding.
                            When it came to how deep you could penetrate through one side, it was 1/8" with a 1/8" diameter E6010 electrode.
                            DCRP.
                            Why do you think SMAW root lands never exceed 1/8"? Do you think, maybe?

                            So, a welder with proper technique, in a square groove preparation, could penetrate 1/8" with a E6010, 125 amps.... cellulose coated, not lime/basic, not rutile or iron power...cellulose coated.
                            Those other coating types would afford less penetration yet with more amperage applied. Go figure?

                            Now...all of a sudden, if the metal is so many thousands thick you need this many amps? That's the problem. It's that which has people trying to convert WFS to amperage because of material thickness? By that reasoning, you couldn't weld 1/2" plate with that machine and we know you could?
                            I shake my head? Poor understand comes from poor explanation and poor education. A lack of knowledge.

                            Where did that come from? Last I recall, the reference was to how much current the wire diameter could support before it started acting badly?
                            So I ask, why are root lands for GMAW never exceeding 1/16"? Because the process limits achievable penetrations depth.
                            You can't, unlike SMAW, expect to just turn the heat up and penetrate?

                            Trying to convert WFS to amperage? I'm not seeing it as helpful, in any way, shape or form?
                            What I can see is someone instructing and say set this dial to this, that dial to that and go run beads. And someone now has to figure out what this is and that was because without those numbers, markers if you will, they're lost?

                            Now the argument is, spray transfer. Why you bought the machine in the first place right? Well before you start with the I told you so, while spray transfer does with added voltage, higher WFS, strip droplets faster with a slight increase in penetration depths, thank you argon, it's really metal deposition rates that rise as a result of using a spray transfer.

                            So...even on a flat square groove preparation butt joint with a spray transfer, or a fillet weld how deep do you think your going to penetrate? Unless you open the gap, vee out deeper prep, you will see a penetration increase, but certainly not 1/8" or close.
                            The process limits as mentioned, penetration, with faster filling and increased travel speeds.

                            So what's my point?
                            The point is, it's my opinion that if you think a digital read out is going to make you a better welder your mistaken. Going through that conversion effort as previously mentioned, is no substitute for knowledge or it's application when welding.
                            But someone watching you work, looking at the numbers, he's going to have something to see.

                            And if your instructing this stuff, show up early for a change, tape over the face of the displays, turn the dials to zero. You'll quickly discover who understands what's going on and who needs your help.

                            Just saying...my opinion and which side of the discussion I would have stood.





















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                            • #44
                              In the New Generation World the meters are needed. The shops have WPS sheets hanging on the wall telling you where to set your machine for different parts. They were made up with engineers whom some have never struck an arc but you have to follow them. (been there). 2nd you have kids coming out of vocational schools that take welding tests on weld simulators with all of the parameters to set up that part for a state test in a notebook hanging on the simulator (seen it) . Ms. school superintendent sitting 14 doors down doesn't give a rats butt if little johnny can really weld as his computer generated welding simulator says he can and he passes the class. Little johnny is now a certified welder ready for the real world. Then in 3 weeks little johnny gets a job in the big shop and doesn't have a clue as the job he was stuck on the meter is broke (seen that too) and his eye phone isn't telling him much. I have seen guys come in for weld tests and scroll thru their phones looking for info to help them on 50 year old machines and they don't have a clue. So yes todays world needs them. Gotta run to work now everyone have a great day...Bob
                              Bob Wright

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
                                and his eye phone isn't telling him much. I have seen guys come in for weld tests and scroll thru their phones looking for info to help them on 50 year old machines and they don't have a clue. So yes todays world needs them. Gotta run to work now everyone have a great day...Bob
                                That's funny, it's a new world, see so many employees at break/lunch and their heads rarely lookup from the enticing screen
                                Richard
                                West coast of Florida

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