MM211 Voltage & wire speed dials?

[Cgotto6]

Gotta say I agree with broccoli, seems like a frivolous thing to want. The old school knobs work, always have, always will.

[RAyJ]

mm211 voltage and wire speed

Easy enough to fix. Get a voltmeter and remove the tension on the drive roller. Pull the trigger and measure the voltage from stinger to work lead. repeat for all voltages around the dial. Then reapply wire tension, set to lowest setting, run wire for 6 seconds. Measure wire in inches and multiply by 10. Repeat for all numbers on the wire speed dial. Get some masking tape and write all these numbers on the welder. Done.

[Broccoli1]

Not asking for an amp meter. An amp meter displays variations in voltage in real time.

I'm interested in learning how to set a machine to a specific voltage and WFS. It would have been nice to afford one with a digital display but that's not in the cards for me. At a minimum I would like to have some close relative idea of what 5/40 or 7/60, etc. is in terms of V/WFS.

Turn it up, turn it down is what I'm doing now (in fact what I did in class too cause the old Miller 250s don't have digital either :-)). I can live with this for now.

I don't think I'm asking for that much. I don't have to have digital display. Miller could resolve this simply by offering us a conversion factor for the increments presently displayed on the dial. Even my $500 Hobart XL 135 has amperage numbers on the adjuster.

One of the downsides for Miller is that this topic sent me (and likely others) looking at other manufactuer's machines. No, I haven't found any in this category but one of the very last things Marketing wants is to have reasons for customers to be investigating competitor product lines.

What is a Hobart XL 135? I can't find it on the Hobart website to look at the manual

[eecervantes83]

I think a voltage meter would be helpful. Those numbers do mean something they get you in a ball park setting ..
Me for instance I weld different thickness in various metal in a day I could be mig welding mild steel then aluminum then flux. For whatever reason. From 120v to 220v. On my. 211. I'm just asking a simple question where could I get a plug and play "voltage meter".

[Broccoli1]

I think a voltage meter would be helpful. Those numbers do mean something they get you in a ball park setting ..
Me for instance I weld different thickness in various metal in a day I could be mig welding mild steel then aluminum then flux. For whatever reason. From 120v to 220v. On my. 211. I'm just asking a simple question where could I get a plug and play "voltage meter".

So does the provided chart and the current numbers on the dial.

You are asking for a Precise meter to get you in "the ball park"

That is the part of this quest for a Voltage Meter that doesn't make sense to me.

[Broccoli1]

"The wire feed speed is in direct relation to the amperage at a given wire stickout (length of wire from the contact tip to the arc). The voltage is in the case of a CV (wire welder) the constant and is the length of the arc from the end of the wire to the weld pool, as you change the wire stick out the amperage changes to maintain the weld voltage. A normal wire stick out for short circuit mig welding is 1/4".

The following example may help you understand this with .035 ER70S-6 wire and C25 shield gas set at 20 SCFH flow.
1/4" wire stickout, volts 17 and wire feed speed 150 IPM = 100 amps
3/8" wire stickout, volts 17 and wire feed speed 150 IPM = 50-60 amps due to the resistive heating of the wire between the tip and the arc the weld current drops to the level required to maintain the set voltage.
If you were to reduce the stickout to 1/8" the weld current would increase to approximatly 150 amps to maintain the set voltage.

Typical min and max ranges of each wire diameter for ER70S-6

.024 minimum 30A 15V 105 IPM WFS, maximum 150A 21V 710 IPM WFS
optimum vert. setting 80A 18V 310 IPM WFS
optimum horiz. setting 110A 21V 465 IPM WFS

.030 minimum 50A 17V 95 IPM WFS, maximum 200A 23V 600 IPM WFS
optimum vert. setting 100A 18V 235 IPM WFS
optimum horiz. setting 150A 20V 385 IPM WFS

.035 minimum 50A 18V 75 IPM WFS, maximum 225A 25V 500 IPM WFS
optimum vert. setting 150A 18V 185 IPM WFS
optimum horiz. setting 215A 22V 415 IPM WFS

I hope this helps more than confuses you.
DrIQ"

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?27631-Amps-Volts-amp-Wire-Feed-Speed

[Thrutraffic]

My bad. It's a Hobart LX 235

[Broccoli1]

My bad. It's a Hobart LX 235

That's a CC machine so you have Amps listed.

[Matrix]

I know that some people might take offense at this but it needs to be said ayway.

When I was an apprentice I was all about the numbers. X number of volts and Y number of amps. I thought like an apprentice and I welded like an apprentice. When I became a Journeyman (and by that I mean more than just possession of a J-ticket) I came to see that welding is far less a science and much more an art. Approaching this particular aspect of welding (setting the heat) like it's a science is a sign of immaturity as a weldor. Sorry if that stings a bit but it's true.

Heat settings should never be dictated by numbers. That approach is just arbitrary and counterproductive. Numbers are just a rough guide, a place to get you started somewhere in the right ballpark. You adjust your heat according to how it's welding. Learn to live with the numberless chart on the door. It will give you a great starting point but I promise you that no amount of detail in that chart, numeric or otherwise, no digital readouts, no numbers on the dials will always give you the best settings for all situations. You always end up flying by the seat of your pants anyway so what does it matter what the numbers are? Start with what's printed on the door and go from there.

[Sandy]

No one has yet stated what is wrong with knowing what the actual voltage, wire speed or amperage is. Very well could be that knowing isn't necessary for many but I have a hard time understanding the concept that more info or knowledge is bad.

Don't really need a speedometer, tachometer or odometer either. I could drive just fine without any of those.

[eecervantes83]

Well said sandy

[eecervantes83]

These old. Welders were brought up without a digital display. And for that reason expect the same from the newer generation. I do just fine without the display. But I'm always curious about these details. l know theirs many variables .. & why hasn't anyone answered. My simple question instead of beating around the bush . Where could a get a plug & play voltage display to add on my Miller 211. Thanks.

[Matrix]

If all you want the numbers for is curiosity then there's absolutley no problem with that but when you intend to set your heat by numbers alone then you do a couple of things. 1) You leave the very real possibility open that you aren't utilising the best welding parameters for the situation because not every situation is the same as every other. 2) You deprive yourself of an opportunity to learn how to be a better weldor. The very existence of this thread is proof of that already. It shows that some people are lost without the numbers.

As for speedometers, there are laws in place regarding how fast you can go. That's not a very good analogy.

[Sandy]

If all you want the numbers for is curiosity then there's absolutley no problem with that but when you intend to set your heat by numbers alone then you do a couple of things. 1) You leave the very real possibility open that you aren't utilising the best welding parameters for the situation because not every situation is the same as every other. 2) You deprive yourself of an opportunity to learn how to be a better weldor. The very existence of this thread is proof of that already. It shows that some people are lost without the numbers.

As for speedometers, there are laws in place regarding how fast you can go. That's not a very good analogy.

Izzat right? So based on that logic even stick machines, all of which have amperage settings on their dials, should or could have no more than a coarse of 1-to-10 and a fine of 1-to-10. Don't sweat the amperage, just set it for what runs the best. A WPS should have a clear and concise statement 'welder to determine correct settings'.

Looking at the welding parameters a manufacturer, let's say Lincoln, details for a particular wire type and size (you do refer to those right?) they always list Voltage, Amperage and Wire Feed Speed. Not one wire spec yet that I've seen states 'for 125 amps run this wire at a setting of C & 70'.

Take a look at Millers 252 GMAW machine or Lincolns 256. The ones one might consider a bit more on the professional side. What all is listed under their selling features? Oh my, it's a dial and digital readout out for Voltage and a dial and digital readout for Wire Feed Speed. Whoe!! They clearly screwed up in design there didn't they? Miller and Lincoln obviously don't realize how damaging it can be to ones learning curve. Everybody knows that all that is needed, and should be installed as features is a high-low and slow-fast knob. After all, us hobby dummies couldn't possibly get it right if it's too complicated. Not one single wire spec I've seen yet to date states 'this wire runs beautifully at a wide range of voltages and speeds, you choose the sound that you know to be best'.

BTW even my little PM215 has at least real world wire speed on the dial, not simply a 1-to10 that could be anywhere from 0 to 700 ipm.

[Sandy]

...........
As for speedometers, there are laws in place regarding how fast you can go. That's not a very good analogy.

Speed limits are simply a set of parameters, set by others, deemed to be safe speeds. I don't need all those signs. I just set the throttle for a speed as fast as possible and still be safe, or even sometimes as slow as I can possibly go for maximum viewing pleasure. I don't need to be bothered with all those numbers. I drive by feel.