Chinese Welders

[JSFAB]

For anyone that don't know anything about Everlast it's owned by a man named Oleg. Oleg is a good guy ..................

Did I mention I love my Dynasty?

Oleg owns the company; he is the boss. Anything that happens or is said in his name or in the name of his company is his responsibility. He can delegate to employees as much as he wants, he's still collecting the profits, he also should collect the blame. Note that Miller, Lincoln, Esab, etc. all sell products made in various countries, they don't constantly offer excuses why the products don't work. They make it their business to insure that anything with their name on it delivers what is promised, no matter where it is made or assembled or tested.

Oleg is NOT a good guy to my mind, I would not ever do business with his type, even at a garage sale.

[crabber]

Interesting too, how Everlast claims shipping damage about half the time. The boat ride across the pond in shipping containers, and UPS.

My twelve year old Miller XMT 304 has taken a considerable beating in it's time riding loose in the back of the truck or on the boat. I would buy a new one if this one ever quits!

-Ian

[OLD SKULL]

Oleg is NOT a good guy to my mind, I would not ever do business with his type, even at a garage sale.

I try hard to make a point without bashing there product in one of the thread link JRW159 post using my limited english spelling but they almost skin me alive.....I shoud have read "The art of war" from Sun Tzu before attempting to interchange with B/S like them.

To bad for them because they just convince me to never do business with them and all the friends I chat with in (air/road/train/naval transport) industries who never work with their product will never be on their buyers list too...You can be sure I'm gone be the "ambassador" of NEVERLAST if they ask me...

They never give me a clear answer to my question about why they offert a 3 years warranty in Canada and 5 years in USA...Now even if they offert me a free be I never take it not even to use it as a boat anchor!

Have a cold one fellow welders

[shywill]

?

Well to keep it short... would you guarantee your welds with your life using a questionable welder, such as that chinese welder... like the post above... you get what you paid... just fork out the money because you will save yourself headaches and bull****...

[jrw159]

BTW Gunner, over on WW they are claiming all 30 of their customers are now "Happy"!

They fail to mention at least ONE of them is HAPPY HE HAS A MILLER DYNASTY 350!!!!!

jrw159

EDIT: I would love to know the content of the e-mails and calls you received from them. I am sure I would get quite a good laugh over it. Can you say damage control??? LOL

[ZTFab]

Just exactly what did you expect from a country that produced pet foods that killed our dogs and cats? They even killed their own babies with melamine tainted milk.

I'll never buy any of their products. SHAME on china

I don't expect anything from China.

What I do expect is the Companies that are choosing to import their products to have some sort of business ethics and do right by the customer. Properly develop and QC the products they receive and support them in a reasonable and timely fashion.

Don't "hide" when problems arise or edit the voice of dissatisfied customers but rather step up and show that they can and will properly handle the situation.

Instead they choose to blow smoke up everyone's *** and the worst part?....Most of their customer believe it.

Another thing I expect is for consumers to demand more from a company that is writing checks that their butt can't cash. If the disposable "Harbor Freight and Walmart" mentality of being able to buy everything that you want for pennies and just throw it away if it doesn't work would stop then these companies would be forced to step up and provide their customers with the products that stand up to the claims they make.

Instead they put the burden on the customer and get away with it. Shame on them.

I had a recent dealing with an import company (HTP) when I purchased a replacement gun for one of my MIG welders. I received the gun and the end fitting was machined incorrectly. I brought the problem to their attention and was promptly handled and the problem resolved. Will I buy from them again? You bet.

The gun is really nice and the customer service is their to back it up.

China and other importers can and will make quality products but as long as consumers are willing to buy crap...they will make it and there will be people to sell it.

[fdcmiami]

"China and other importers can and will make quality products but as long as consumers are willing to buy crap...they will make it and there will be people to sell it."

i would like to point out to those of you that don't know the difference between a business entitiy and a nation, that china falls into the nation category.

when you are getting ready to buy something and you look at the label, it will not say made by china; it will say made in china. there is a big difference. china is a nation, not a business entity. i'm sure there are plenty of people out there that would like to tell me how and where to spend my money. what can i say to that? well, how about fxck off; does that work?

in the early 80's i was taking a math class at CSF, most of the class were vietnamese, former refugees. one vocal moron in the class, a california dude, frustrated by their presence and lack of english skills, announced to the instructor that he wished they'd all go back to that island they came from. that to me was very sad; for a number of reasons, but it also illustrates just how parochial americans can be. i am willing to bet that a lot of the most vocal anti china protestors on this board, probably couldn't find it on a map, tell you the capital, ever heard of mao tse tung, formosa, the dual goverment arrangment that went on for years and so on. much of what i see is just mindless muttering from a lot of townies.

[ZTFab]

"China and other importers can and will make quality products but as long as consumers are willing to buy crap...they will make it and there will be people to sell it."

I mis-typed that as I meant/should have said "China and other nations..."

[ZTFab]

i am willing to bet that a lot of the most vocal anti china protestors on this board, probably couldn't find it on a map,

Isn't it the one that looks like the big boot?

[shovelon]

i would like to point out to those of you that don't know the difference between a business entitiy and a nation, that china falls into the nation category.

when you are getting ready to buy something and you look at the label, it will not say made by china; it will say made in china. there is a big difference. china is a nation, not a business entity. i'm sure there are plenty of people out there that would like to tell me how and where to spend my money. what can i say to that? well, how about fxck off; does that work?

i am willing to bet that a lot of the most vocal anti china protestors on this board, probably couldn't find it on a map, tell you the capital, ever heard of mao tse tung, formosa, the dual goverment arrangment that went on for years and so on. much of what i see is just mindless muttering from a lot of townies.

Yawn.

[Gunner12R]

Oleg owns the company; he is the boss. Anything that happens or is said in his name or in the name of his company is his responsibility. He can delegate to employees as much as he wants, he's still collecting the profits, he also should collect the blame. Note that Miller, Lincoln, Esab, etc. all sell products made in various countries, they don't constantly offer excuses why the products don't work. They make it their business to insure that anything with their name on it delivers what is promised, no matter where it is made or assembled or tested.

Oleg is NOT a good guy to my mind, I would not ever do business with his type, even at a garage sale.

There's a lot that could be said on the subject of how Everlast conducts its business. I can only speak for my own personal business dealings with Oleg. They weren't always the most pleasant without doubt but in the end he did refund every dime I spent to try his equipment and I can't ask more than that. I'm a very unwelcome person on the Everlast site because I was very out-spoken and unpleasant over the problems with Oleg's Tech man and his accusations that the problem was me not understanding the equipment and NOT defective equipment! The fact that there was a problem didn't bother me so much really. I understand that sh*t happens... It was how it was ( or better said ------> wasn't ) handled by his man.... And to this very day the service rep for Everlast REFUSES to apologize for his lies and attempted cover up of the issues.. Oleg has said sorry more times than I can count but unless he fires that guy his apology don't set matters right with me as long as he continues to keep that man on the company payroll. By keeping him the apology that Oleg gives don't hold water with me.. Simply because in my opinion if he was truly sorry for the situation he would fix the real problem and that will require either terminating the employee or the employee posting a public apology for accusing customers of wrong doing to cover up for defective equipment..

It's clear there's never going to be an easy answer for any companies business practices and Everlast (oleg) are no exception. Based on my one and only dealings with him he did do everything he advertises.. I'm not saying it was done as smooth as silk because I'll not lie to cover for anyone. However doing business with WalMart isn't always a cake walk either.. No company is ever going to make everyone happy. Oleg is not an exception and we all need to keep in mind that the internet is a very concentrated view from a small number of the whole number of customers of any company and NOT in any way a fool proof measure of any company. I wouldn't hang anyone based on just what I read on the internet about them. If that were the case I would have a fairly long neck myself..

[H80N]

False Economy!!!!

The people that think they are saving anything by spending less upfront to buy these "Bargain" offshore products are really just fooling themselves... they a are really spending as much or more.... in the long run..

When I bought a Miller welder.... You bet it cost a lot more than some offshore brand-x.... with that price I was also buying proven R&D, a vast well established equipment service network... worldwide customer support and the piece of mind that the product would work as advertised... but if there was a problem... that there would be dedicated "qualified" personnel on tap to help resolve any issues.....

ON the other hand... none of that exists with the "bargain brand".... so while the customer may spend fewer dollars for the initial purchase the real cost in... frustration, lost productivity, safety issues, wasted time, unmet expectations... etc etc.... is vastly higher for the "Bargain"..... in many cases making that unit disposable if needing service

so which is really the wiser purchase??? ....(it may depend on how much you value your time and agravation)



I personally would rather spend the money up front on a known excellent product and support structure.... than roll the dice on some unknown and not very long established firm....
My money goes to a proven multinational corporation with decades long expertise and positive track record in the field... rather than a couple of guys standing in front of an ocean cargo container...

that is my choice... you make yours

[FusionKing]

I agree.
With all the electronics involved, you need all the support you can get. IMO the good stuff is "iffy" enough.
Out of 4 Dynastys I've owned 2 have had to have very expensive repairs, and they were both very lengthy times in the shop. I can't imagine Everlast being even that good when they only have one guy in the shop.

[SundownIII]

fdcmiami,

I'd be willing to put my knowledge of and experience in that area (Asia) up against your's any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Not only have I spent considerable time in that region, but I've studied in great detail their manufacturing and distribution capabilities. Believe it or not, that's one of the things the military does that goes unnoticed in the greater scheme of things.

My son, who's a senior manager with one of the largest consulting firms in the world has spent considerable time in Asia. I won't get into a discussion about what things China (and the associated manufacturing companies) does right, but I will tell you that they've got serious problems about how they respond to their own workforce as well as the consumers they serve. Probably the best/simpliest comment here would be to not expect China (and it's manufacturing companies) to be "self policing".

In the early 70's, I worked directly for (briefed him every morning) a General Officer who's previous assignment had been Commander, Free World Forces, Taiwan (formerly Formosa). General C____ was a recognized expert on that area of the world. We stayed in touch over the years. In fact, he retired and settled down about 15 miles from where I currently live. We've had some "interesting" discussions about the emergence of China as a manufacturing giant.

PS. As I mentioned, his previous assignment was Cdr, FWFT. One evening (1969 if I remember correctly) he got a personal call from then President Nixon. In summary it went, "Chick, you know I'm getting ready to make a trip to Red China and we can't afford another Gary Powers (downed U2 pilot) incident so I'd like you to stop sending the flights over Red China".

The reply went, "Mr. President, with all due respect, I'm a Joint Commander and normally receive my orders from the JCS. When I receive an order from the JCS, I can be assured you've been adequately briefed on the consequences of that order. You need to put this back in the right channels."

I mention this because, even back then, a recognized "area expert" felt that China warranted "close scrutiny". Ironically, little has changed since that time. We won't even begin to discuss the "patent infringements", Chinese knockoffs, etc, etc.

Can the manufacturing base in China produce goods that can compete in a global market (with respect to quality, reliability, etc). Sure. But only if the buyer insists on it. Our Chinese importers on this site have not done that. Rather they spend their profits on misleading advertising and putting bandaids (replacing faulty units or shafting the customer), rather than insisting on improved quality control. A company hiring a hack welder to "inspect and certify" a newly released product line is about as big a joke as I've heard lately.

If these "fly by night" Chinese importers want to make the claim that they "can run with the big dogs" (Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, TA, Hypertherm, etc) then show me the Electrical Engineers, the Welding Engineers, the qualified QA inspectors, etc, etc that they have in their employ.

Show me how they've improved the service, repair parts issue.

They can't do any of these things. There are quite a few successful "business models" out there that they could have followed, but they chose not to because that may have cut into their profits, or they would have to increase price to cover those expenses.

The Chinese industrial base will only produce a level of quality that the "customer" demands and is qualified to "measure/gauge".

Heck, these importers have been "trying to figure out" packaging (shipping containers/how goods are packaged for further shipping) for over three years. They still don't have it right as evidenced by the continued "justification" that the customers DOA welder was "damaged in shipping".

Why is it so difficult for these importers to figure out that deceptive advertising and censorship just doesn't work. They go to extremes to lie to the customer, rather than just stand flatfooted on the ground and tell the truth. Maybe that's just the nature of the principals involved.

If anyone seriously thinks that these two companies (Everlast/Longivity) will ever be a serious threat to the "big dogs", then they're smoking some really good dope. The professional welding community demands more than simply good price. The community demands VALUE for their dollar. That's not being provided by the importers.

Why don't the importers just fess up and admit that their target audience is the newbie/hobby welder who isn't going to lose work or his business if his machine doesn't work tomorrow.

I had a long discussion with the owner of my Miller Service Facility (top notch operation) about the potential for business from the "import market". His response was that he had looked at over a dozen units that owners had brought in, and had yet to find one that was "economically repairable". Detailed schematics were not available, repair parts were virtually non existant (unless you wanted to reverse engineer the unit and use off the shelf components). No technical support from the manufacturers. The list just goes on and on. He just felt the benefit (plenty of defective machines to work on) wasn't worth the effort.

There are so many areas that the importers could really work on and improve, but none of them really improve the short term bottom line so they are neglected.

Regardless of what people may think, I'm not so much against "Made in China" (global economy is reality) as I'm against deceptive advertising and misleading uninformed buyers. Yeah, I know it's partly the buyers fault, but maybe he wouldn't be so quick to jump if he wasn't being fed a line of BS.

[H80N]

fdcmiami,

I'd be willing to put my knowledge of and experience in that area (Asia) up against your's any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Not only have I spent considerable time in that region, but I've studied in great detail their manufacturing and distribution capabilities. Believe it or not, that's one of the things the military does that goes unnoticed in the greater scheme of things.

My son, who's a senior manager with one of the largest consulting firms in the world has spent considerable time in Asia. I won't get into a discussion about what things China (and the associated manufacturing companies) does right, but I will tell you that they've got serious problems about how they respond to their own workforce as well as the consumers they serve. Probably the best/simpliest comment here would be to not expect China (and it's manufacturing companies) to be "self policing".

In the early 70's, I worked directly for (briefed him every morning) a General Officer who's previous assignment had been Commander, Free World Forces, Taiwan (formerly Formosa). General C____ was a recognized expert on that area of the world. We stayed in touch over the years. In fact, he retired and settled down about 15 miles from where I currently live. We've had some "interesting" discussions about the emergence of China as a manufacturing giant.

PS. As I mentioned, his previous assignment was Cdr, FWFT. One evening (1969 if I remember correctly) he got a personal call from then President Nixon. In summary it went, "Chick, you know I'm getting ready to make a trip to Red China and we can't afford another Gary Powers (downed U2 pilot) incident so I'd like you to stop sending the flights over Red China".

The reply went, "Mr. President, with all due respect, I'm a Joint Commander and normally receive my orders from the JCS. When I receive an order from the JCS, I can be assured you've been adequately briefed on the consequences of that order. You need to put this back in the right channels."

I mention this because, even back then, a recognized "area expert" felt that China warranted "close scrutiny". Ironically, little has changed since that time. We won't even begin to discuss the "patent infringements", Chinese knockoffs, etc, etc.

Can the manufacturing base in China produce goods that can compete in a global market (with respect to quality, reliability, etc). Sure. But only if the buyer insists on it. Our Chinese importers on this site have not done that. Rather they spend their profits on misleading advertising and putting bandaids (replacing faulty units or shafting the customer), rather than insisting on improved quality control. A company hiring a hack welder to "inspect and certify" a newly released product line is about as big a joke as I've heard lately.

If these "fly by night" Chinese importers want to make the claim that they "can run with the big dogs" (Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, TA, Hypertherm, etc) then show me the Electrical Engineers, the Welding Engineers, the qualified QA inspectors, etc, etc that they have in their employ.

Show me how they've improved the service, repair parts issue.

They can't do any of these things. There are quite a few successful "business models" out there that they could have followed, but they chose not to because that may have cut into their profits, or they would have to increase price to cover those expenses.

The Chinese industrial base will only produce a level of quality that the "customer" demands and is qualified to "measure/gauge".

Heck, these importers have been "trying to figure out" packaging (shipping containers/how goods are packaged for further shipping) for over three years. They still don't have it right as evidenced by the continued "justification" that the customers DOA welder was "damaged in shipping".

Why is it so difficult for these importers to figure out that deceptive advertising and censorship just doesn't work. They go to extremes to lie to the customer, rather than just stand flatfooted on the ground and tell the truth. Maybe that's just the nature of the principals involved.

If anyone seriously thinks that these two companies (Everlast/Longivity) will ever be a serious threat to the "big dogs", then they're smoking some really good dope. The professional welding community demands more than simply good price. The community demands VALUE for their dollar. That's not being provided by the importers.

Why don't the importers just fess up and admit that their target audience is the newbie/hobby welder who isn't going to lose work or his business if his machine doesn't work tomorrow.

I had a long discussion with the owner of my Miller Service Facility (top notch operation) about the potential for business from the "import market". His response was that he had looked at over a dozen units that owners had brought in, and had yet to find one that was "economically repairable". Detailed schematics were not available, repair parts were virtually non existant (unless you wanted to reverse engineer the unit and use off the shelf components). No technical support from the manufacturers. The list just goes on and on. He just felt the benefit (plenty of defective machines to work on) wasn't worth the effort.

There are so many areas that the importers could really work on and improve, but none of them really improve the short term bottom line so they are neglected.

Regardless of what people may think, I'm not so much against "Made in China" (global economy is reality) as I'm against deceptive advertising and misleading uninformed buyers. Yeah, I know it's partly the buyers fault, but maybe he wouldn't be so quick to jump if he wasn't being fed a line of BS.

SundownIII

your knowledge and experience in that area likely far exceeds the ability of some to comprehend it..... so while a noble exercise... at least in one case it is probably wasted effort... However I think the general audience here will indeed get it....