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  • #31
    Originally posted by Spotted Horse View Post
    Not what I would call a real head to head comparison between blue and green, you decided.

    http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...ss-welder.html
    Would be up to the OP to do the comparison... would be his buy... so it is his homework to do that comparison... we just provided some of the test questions...
    He is a big boy.. so he can go and ask "them" those questions without any of us holding his hand...
    Rather than whining that he did not like our responses....

    there were a series of very valid comparison questions posed... ball in his court... as it his dime to invest or waste..........

    BTW... anybody who has taken a little time to read back in the threads a little bit wil discover that there is a pretty free discussion about the relative merits of various color machines ... and many times the winner in a particular case is not blue.....
    But many of us have looked at the relative merits of these "Bargain" machines as well and they turn out to not be much of a bargain for our purposes.... and "green" looks like a sucker bet to me.... each to his own...
    Last edited by H80N; 01-15-2012, 03:46 PM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

    Comment


    • #32
      From what I have read about Everlast and Longevity's customer service, they could learn a lot from Miller and Lincoln. Just saying.

      Comment


      • #33
        Spotted Horse,

        If that's not the UNDERSTATEMENT of the month, it's dang close...
        Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200 DX
        Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
        Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
        Hobart HH187
        Dialarc 250 AC/DC
        Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
        Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
        PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
        Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
        Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
        More grinders than hands

        Comment


        • #34
          While that may be true what do you expect,,, it for nothing? How much does this machine cost, what 1600 or so,,, a blue one,, what, 5 grand. You should hope it comes with better service.

          Comment


          • #35
            I know it is no big deal, but sometimes it is the little things. Years ago I was refurbishing an old Miller welder. I called Miller to see if I could buy decals for it. They would not hear of it, they mailed them to me for free.

            Comment


            • #36
              Yes, I agree they are the best or as good as anyone. What I tend to disagree with is the fair comparison and the basic logic. I could see this reasoning if the green one was 500$ cheaper in comparison. I see this with hand tools, snappy is so much better,,, well in truth the difference between an end wrench you can buy these days for 2 or 3 dollars isn't real great considering the premium one is 30, 10 times the cost and with their eyes closed no one could tell the difference.
              Miller will get that back for a couple of free stickers but is it worth it to this guy whodescribess his use as part timer for it? Thats debatable especially when I suspect the cheap one actually does work and probably pretty good,,, especially since its 30 cents on the dollar.
              I am not questioning the value difference between these units but the reasoning in the comparison, how objective is it? Another forum,,, a guy who was short lived here would badmouth a AC/DC buzzer as junk, insists some 6K Miller he has is the only way to go, it works so much better running on 3 ph and all,,, well I really doubt this dipstick could weld himself inside a box anyway let alone tell much difference between machines.
              I bought a 100$ forney welder just to see if it worked, sort of, there is only so low you can go but used one at 250$ (or less) that worked pretty well and I bet in all reality this chi com greenie works too. Maybe a few units with a couple more more problems than blue but I doubt these people going to a worldwide effort to sell something thdoesn'tsnt work? The competition is too big. Even if it worked fair and last half as long it only cost 30% up front, so a guy uses it 10 yrs in a hobby garage, etc, what if it blows up beyond repair, how much is he out?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by H80N View Post
                I'm with Sberry..... this has always been an open forum... with free comparisons of machines and technique..... and indeed sometimes, for a specific user and application... the right machine might end up being a different color... big deal!!!.... we live and learn... that is part of what makes this forum so good....
                While this forum was started and sponsored by Miller... they have been wise enough to allow free comparison of their product with all others.... and Miller welders stand on their own merit.... NOT on some BS Politically correct policy....

                That being said...

                AS far as the green chinese machine.... You get what you pay for... if it breaks down... expect to replace it as there is no nationwide service and support network... no huge knowledgable user base.... no free document library....

                you pay your money and you take your choice..... many of us have invested tens of thousands of dollars in welding equipment.... why would we spend 4 times as much for a Miller welder when we could buy chinese for much less.....??

                I say to the OP... take your time and do a REAL comparison... it is your dime.....
                Think about this..... there is a huge quantity of 25+ year old Synchrowaves out there still giving excellent service and being traded briskly on the used market... many years after the shiny blue paint is worn off.... ever wonder why??...
                By the same token.... where will that shiny green chinese box be in just a few years?? or one or two?? .... and if you do face a problem.... would you rather lean on a knowledge base of hundreds of thousands of expert users and tech support people..... or the guy with a cellphone parked next to a shipping container???

                Your Dime.... Your Move..
                I reprised my first post on this thread..... they are two different classes of machine... you get what you pay for... and with nearly nonexistant service or support, you could consider this a disposable machine... if it breaks, you toss and replace it........ if you understand that coming in the door and can live with that reality... then maybe it would make sense for you..... not for me....

                I cannot afford the uncertainty of a disposable machine that may last 5years or it may last 5months...... and am happy to pay the price premium to have the known reliability and support structure in place.... of the top of the line Miller machines... a hobby user may have differing needs and budget....
                Last edited by H80N; 01-15-2012, 08:06 PM.
                .

                *******************************************
                The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                My Blue Stuff:
                Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                Dynasty 200DX
                Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                Millermatic 200

                TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                Comment


                • #38
                  Yes, I am not trying to make any kind of argument that this machine is as good as a Miller but it seems to get by many that the price point is different too. Take their 140, the basic equivalent of the Maxstar,, which I have. 250 vs 800$ and my Max is out of warranty, burned about 20# of rods with it. They sent me a minor failed part with a phone call. But in 3 years I can get every replacement part for the green one too,,, 250$, would almost bet that the first unit would have given me the same service? If I was a daily driver with the potential of 100's or 1000's of hours on a unit like this in professional service the 800 $ up front would certainly been a minor issue, it is with me anyway, but I can see a place for a cheap unit also.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Here is one "knob's" thought process concerning these machines.

                    "You could purchase two green machines for the price of a blue and have one sitting on the shelf in case the other needs service, or double your production."

                    Well I do not know of anyone who can use two machines at the same time, so double the production is out.

                    Buying two for the price of one so you have a back up in case the other needs service.......... well I know what that tells me.

                    BTW, this guy is a "Pro". LMAO

                    So if you are going to buy Neverlast, then buy two of them so you can use one while you fight with them over repairs, shipping, unanswered e-mails/phone calls and all the other fun stuff that goes along with the fabulous Neverlast package.

                    Of course this is assuming that the second machine even works!

                    Good luck.

                    jrw159
                    ASW CWI / ASNT ACCP II / CWB Welding Inspector / CWB Welding Supervisor / PT Level II / MT Level II

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by jrw159 View Post
                      Here is one "knob's" thought process concerning these machines.

                      "You could purchase two green machines for the price of a blue and have one sitting on the shelf in case the other needs service, or double your production."

                      Well I do not know of anyone who can use two machines at the same time, so double the production is out.

                      Buying two for the price of one so you have a back up in case the other needs service.......... well I know what that tells me.

                      BTW, this guy is a "Pro". LMAO

                      So if you are going to buy Neverlast, then buy two of them so you can use one while you fight with them over repairs, shipping, unanswered e-mails/phone calls and all the other fun stuff that goes along with the fabulous Neverlast package.

                      Of course this is assuming that the second machine even works!

                      Good luck.

                      jrw159
                      A better scenario would be 3 machines.

                      Then there is the support. Most of the people I see that do any good on these are people that use professional equipment at work, then cheap out at home where it does not matter.

                      Being in the biz for as long as I have, I like to have backups myself whatever the item. And as an old Boy Scout, I like to be prepared. And I am always rotating in more modern equipment as well.

                      It is not how much the item costs, but what kind of profit you can make from them. If I found a profile that would increase my profit ratio, give my crew a raise, add more benifits, and increase productivity, I may consider them. Right now that is just dreaming.
                      Nothing welded, Nothing gained

                      Miller Dynasty700DX
                      3 ea. Miller Dynasty350DX
                      Miller Dynasty200DX
                      ThermalArc 400 GTSW
                      MillerMatic350P
                      MillerMatic200 with spoolgun
                      MKCobraMig260
                      Lincoln SP-170T
                      Linde UCC305 (sold 2011)
                      Hypertherm 1250
                      Hypertherm 800
                      PlasmaCam CNC cutter
                      Fadal Toolroom CNC Mill
                      SiberHegner CNC Mill
                      2 ea. Bridgeport
                      LeBlond 15" Lathe
                      Haberle 18" Cold Saw
                      Doringer 14" Cold Saw
                      6 foot x 12 foot Mojave granite

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by shovelon View Post
                        A better scenario would be 3 machines.

                        Then there is the support. Most of the people I see that do any good on these are people that use professional equipment at work, then cheap out at home where it does not matter.

                        Being in the biz for as long as I have, I like to have backups myself whatever the item. And as an old Boy Scout, I like to be prepared. And I am always rotating in more modern equipment as well.

                        It is not how much the item costs, but what kind of profit you can make from them. If I found a profile that would increase my profit ratio, give my crew a raise, add more benifits, and increase productivity, I may consider them. Right now that is just dreaming.
                        Shovelon,
                        It is one thing to always have a back up. Anyone making a living with a welder should for sure have a back up machine. I did not mean to make it sound as if a welder does not need a back up.

                        But to buy a new machine with the thought of needing another one for when the first one bites the dust is just astounding to me.

                        jrw159
                        ASW CWI / ASNT ACCP II / CWB Welding Inspector / CWB Welding Supervisor / PT Level II / MT Level II

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          google welding tips and tricks i believe he has one of these looks like ok machine for home use. he also compares it to the dynasty 200 dx. prefer miller all the way but if your a hobbyist what's the point of spending 3 times the money for the best when ok will do. i would still buy the miller but...
                          trail blazer 302
                          hypertherm plasma
                          millermatic 251
                          high feq. arc starter
                          suit case (extreme 12vs)
                          o/a torches
                          way to many other tools to list

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by arc View Post
                            google welding tips and tricks i believe he has one of these looks like ok machine for home use. he also compares it to the dynasty 200 dx. prefer miller all the way but if your a hobbyist what's the point of spending 3 times the money for the best when ok will do. i would still buy the miller but...
                            Because most people that buy that junk cry like little girls when it breaks and the manufacturer gives them their but to kiss. Soon after they come post it on the welding forums looking for sympathy. Good new welding equipment makes good used welding equipment.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Look at this,,, 4 pages of worry about how much it cost and how to fix a machine no one even has yet,,,,, hahaha http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...63-Dynasty-280

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sberry View Post
                                Look at this,,, 4 pages of worry about how much it cost and how to fix a machine no one even has yet,,,,, hahaha http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...63-Dynasty-280
                                Sberry
                                you lost me at the pass..... how does that relate to a green chinee machine???....
                                .

                                *******************************************
                                The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                                “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                                Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                                My Blue Stuff:
                                Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                                Dynasty 200DX
                                Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                                Millermatic 200

                                TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                                Comment

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