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  • H80N
    replied
    Not a Joke..!!

    this thread got hijacked by a well meaning fella that has zero business experience...and hardly any welding experience.. Doughboyracer is just unclear on the concept...and freely admitted so after things got jumbled.. may mean well ... but all of his commentary was totally off base..... he may consider this a joke... maybe we should take that into account any time he posts...

    might be we should back off to where we were addressing the OP...and his questions... not entertaining some bored programmer in his cubicle...

    Leave a comment:


  • FusionKing
    replied
    I will say I think it's a load of crap when a guy asks for advise and gets some real good stuff and then the rest of the thread is nothing but undermining the good advise. I don't post on threads unless I am pretty much 100% certain my advice is rock solid. And I don't call BS anymore these days. It is just bad for the forum. If someone posts what you think is BS, then simply post your good advice, and if it is taken, then you have done a good thing.
    God knows I have made many posts that I believed were utter genius, only to be ignored. Only the other pros appreciate that stuff, and this place is really a hobby site. Much just blows over.
    The actual losing of all the investments was the RESULT of business gone sour, not the cause.
    I could lose my tail tomorrow.
    There are plenty of dudes out there trying to eat my lunch these days. They are cheaper than me and get some of my work. But their work sucks and eventually I win. OVER and OVER.
    I am all for the new guys. Just not in my territory

    Leave a comment:


  • JTMcC
    replied
    OK.
    You know what they say, when your neighbor is out of work it's a recession, when you're out of work it's a depression.
    No BS in my post, people who have their heart and soul in their business, it's their baby. And they can be pretty attached to employees who've been there in good and bad and always pulled their weight.
    So maybe they hang in too long to suit you but that's just how they are. That man sleeps well at night even if he has less in the bank.
    Your retirement suggestion is fine, IF you're at retirement age and have a pension/401k/similar to draw on like most employees do. There's really more to it than I have the ambition or inclination to type. It's a different world than it is for people who punch a clock.

    JT

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  • Doughboyracer
    replied
    Please read my signature...

    You win H80N...
    Last edited by Doughboyracer; 12-28-2011, 10:53 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JTMcC
    replied
    You'd have to work a lot harder than that to offend me my skin is relatively thick.
    It was just a discussion to me.
    I can't speak for others tho, and I'm not sure I have any "friends".

    Have you run a welding business?
    I got the impression you are an employee.

    There is a lot of business advice on the net, some good, some not so good. What works for me probably wouldn't for a lot of people.
    But one thing I know is that cost knowledge works for everbody.
    And there are a lot of welding segments today with very little product demand and a bunch of people quoting at cost or below just to stay open till better demand arrives

    JT

    Leave a comment:


  • Doughboyracer
    replied
    I don't own any type of shop...

    You win H80N...
    Last edited by Doughboyracer; 12-28-2011, 10:53 AM.

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  • JTMcC
    replied
    Originally posted by Doughboyracer View Post
    Sounds to me like they weren't as smart of businessmen as you thought they were...to many places to go with that one. I know it happens but for a guy with millions and "several" houses...POOR choices is what that is. At some point you have to cut your losses and retirement is where that line should be drawn. Been to the malls or restaurants lately? I am still missing the part about recession...We all make choices, and have to live with those choices. 8-10% unemployment is NOT a recession. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm


    Well everybody gets an opinion. Mine's different than most.

    As far as houses, the people I know with rentals are doing better than those that had their retirement based in the stock market, so I don't have a problem with someone that wants to own several houses.

    There were large amounts of retirement invesments lost in the stock market over the last few years, I don't blame the working man for not seeing it coming they were just making the best investments they knew of at the time. It's pretty painfull for those guys that are close to or at retirement age of course. They saved for years because they are responsible for their own retirement and that investment went "poof"!

    Having a million or more stashed away (or a million + in property) after a lifetime of self employment really isn't a lot of money. With no other retirement income to depend on but their own it's a smart thing. People live a long time these days.

    I also don't fault a man who keeps his business open and keeps his good hands around as long as possible hoping to ride it out like he's done several times in the past. Probably not the smartest business decision in hindsight but they did it based on past experience and loyalty to good, long term employees. Hope springs eternal in the American entrapuneer.

    10% unemployment across the country doesn't tell the story in construction. Or a few other fields.

    Lot's of people are doing fine in this economy, some are surviving but in some fields it's pretty harsh. Hopefully the worst is over but I doubt it.

    I'm curious, how many years experience do you have owning a weldin bidness? A large percentage go under within 5 years even when there is a big honky number of projects to bid.

    Remember, only 353 more shopping days till Christmas!

    JT, Ho Ho Ho!

    Leave a comment:


  • Doughboyracer
    replied
    I'm not sure...

    You win H80N...
    Last edited by Doughboyracer; 12-28-2011, 10:53 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by Doughboyracer View Post
    I am always amazed at how defensive people get when you point out that there is only 8-10% of the people out of work. Not too bad when 25% of the population is too stupid to even be employed.
    A healthy economy has maybe 4 percent unemployment.... and 8-10% is OK?

    what planet do you live on???????????...

    Leave a comment:


  • Doughboyracer
    replied
    Ever heard of vacation?

    You win H80N...
    Last edited by Doughboyracer; 12-28-2011, 10:53 AM.

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  • Dipsomaniac
    replied
    Originally posted by Doughboyracer View Post

    I find it interesting that you claim one thing while the link you provided shows a different picture. For example;

    "Manufacturing employment changed little over the month and has remained essentially
    unchanged since July. In November, fabricated metal products added 8,000 jobs, while
    electronic instruments lost 2,000 jobs.

    Construction employment showed little movement in November. Employment in the
    industry has shown little change, on net, since early 2010."

    Leave a comment:


  • H80N
    replied
    Originally posted by Doughboyracer View Post
    Sounds to me like they weren't as smart of businessmen as you thought they were...to many places to go with that one. I know it happens but for a guy with millions and "several" houses...POOR choices is what that is. At some point you have to cut your losses and retirement is where that line should be drawn. Been to the malls or restaurants lately? I am still missing the part about recession...We all make choices, and have to live with those choices. 8-10% unemployment is NOT a recession. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
    I don't know where you live or what you do for a living.... but the "recession" or whatever you want to call it is real..... take a look at the number of commercial properties that are for rent or lease and that have been for some time.....
    and before you get too gushy and self congratulatory... remember... your job is just as vulnerable as those that you smugly declare as having made POOR choices..... time will tell.....

    might be even more vulnerable, if you are pontificating on the boss's time using a company computer... ya think??.... they are cleaning out the deadwood in the "white collar" ranks too I hear...

    BTW... that gov BLS link that you give is erronious to say the least, no administration in history calculated unemployment the way the present one does.... if you calculate it the old way the real number is closer to 17percent
    Just like inflation.... the NEW method of calculating it excludes the rising cost of food and fuel.... kinda unrealistic if you think that the majority of a family expenditure is for food and fuel..... take a look at equipment prices from 3 years ago and the same equip price now....
    Last edited by H80N; 12-27-2011, 09:26 AM. Reason: clarity..

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  • Doughboyracer
    replied
    You win H80N...
    Last edited by Doughboyracer; 12-28-2011, 10:53 AM.

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  • H80N
    replied
    Good Advice

    JTMcC
    Good solid advice....


    mauerick
    and it is indeed a tough market... think probably the worst since the great depression... no matter how the politicians cook the books to make things sound better and improving... I am afraid that it will still get even worse in the next couple of years... don't spend a penny that you do not have in pocket.. buy your equipment outright.. time payment is an invitation to giving it back if the unforseen happens and you are unable to make payments and as JTMcC said, study and work your tail end off...
    We presently have a terrible economy and the most business unfriendly administration in decades... so whatever you do, work hard and pay attention to every detail..
    Business wise there is no "low hanging fruit" to sustain a business as there is in good times... every bit will be hard won...

    Leave a comment:


  • JTMcC
    replied
    Anybody that starts a business today should have a serious grasp about what they will encounter incuding the regulatory and legal burdens. It's a lot more important to understand the negatives than it is to know the potential positives.
    The internet is full of advise for potential business owners that consist of "go for it, you'll do great", "once you get word of mouth you'll be golden", "do good work and the money will come".
    Of course it's your life at risk, not theirs.
    Sorry but I know of dozens of grown men, with solid decades of experience, within a few hundred miles of my house that have lost it all in todays economy. I've gone to several of the auctions where their lifes work went for penny's on the dollar and these were men who ran good business' for 20-30 years with a stable, regular base of work with 1 -30 employees making a good living.
    The base went away tho, and they spent everything (well over 1 million US $) they had stashed for retirement and are working for hourly wages now. Guys who owned several houses and were planning on a pretty good life in retirement.
    Other regions have other economic realities but the bottom line is that overall in America it's a harsh world right now in most areas of self employment and when there is nothing to weld, welding companies drop like flies.
    Americans have always had and always will have the spirit to start a business but the failure rates in good economic times are high and they are worse right now. Hopefully that will change soon but there is less rod being burnt today than in a long time.
    When guys who have extensive bidding and successfull job completion experience are going down the tubes left and right it becomes an even harsher environment for a inexperienced beginer to survive and thrive in.
    It may get worse before it gets better and the more knowledge you have about the negatives the better.
    The "welding for a living" world is not the "mow lawns for spending money" world. Look at the number of unemployed welders (a lot of them call me every day looking for work) and the number of long gone welding business'.
    Look at the coalsmokes of the world, posted on the web like a real deal welding business, put less than a thousand hours on a machine in three years, live in Mom & Dads house and act all like a real virtual welding company. Gone like the wind, internet persona just a puff of smoke, in spite of the big time insults piled on people like me via the keyboard "I'm a badass and I learned all my terminology at a computer but I couldn't really hack it in the welding world.". That's the best example but there are a lot of others.
    Your keyboard persona will not pay any bills. Keep in mind that regardless of your age you WILL meet a sweet young thing and take on considerable responsibilities later in life = $$$$ required. A happy family can be rather expensive.
    So my best advise is to put a stopwatch to every task, record those numbers, learn to bid like a maniac and don't work by the hour, get off the interwebs, study your craft like no one else, buy every labor saving tool/piece of equipment and make your money on productivity.
    A sound small business will always make much more money by quoting work and then pumping it out in spectacular productivity. Lot's of slugs are out there quoting jobs at slug rates, paying slug wages and getting hammered.
    Oh and get several years real world hard money experience working for someone else (and using that stopwatch on someone else's nickle so you don't start out blind but have a super valuable database) before putting everything you own at risk.
    That database is money, especially now where people are quoting work just to pay overhead.
    Become an information sponge and absorb every money making trait and more importantly every money losing trait you see. Money losing businesses are on every corner, beat every dollar out of every bid and you can live a happy life and eat (plus a lot of other people can too) every day.
    And allways remember, it's a people business not a welding business. Make people money and they will call you.
    In my opinion this applies to small repair type to mid size contracting.

    My take only so of course take it or more likely ignore it.

    I hope everybody had as good a Christmas as we had. And I hope next year finds everybody busier than this, with a new president in place and EVERY SINGLE crooked idiot in Washington replaced : )

    Ho Ho Ho!

    JT

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