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Adding a 230v outlet for a Diversion 180

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  • Adding a 230v outlet for a Diversion 180

    Greetings,

    I'm having an electrician add a separate 230v outlet/breaker-box/etc. for a Diversion 180 TIG machine; and before he goes and buys wire, he was curious if Miller has a recommendation on the gauge/type of wire, size of breakers, etc.

    Any tips or suggestions on the proper wire to use? We want it big enough, but not too much bigger than we need.

    Cheers!

  • #2
    The minimum is 14,,, this is single circuit in pipe, if romex type cable this means 12 minimum but,,, I prefer 10 for these circuits for a couple reasons. One being it fits the terminals on the recept better, gives the machine all the help it can and 10 is suitable for other machines. Also allows for a 50A breaker to be used.

    Comment


    • #3
      Follow electrical service guide for
      230 VAC in Section 4-4. Do not use
      plug rating to size branch circuit
      protection
      As far as I know this applys when using the minimum wire size, anyone know what wire size the cord is?

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks SBerry. 10 was the plan. Guess we'll stick with that.

        Regarding the breaker, I believe he was thinking of using something larger that 50A. Good idea / bad idea?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by techguy View Post
          Thanks SBerry. 10 was the plan. Guess we'll stick with that.

          Regarding the breaker, I believe he was thinking of using something larger that 50A. Good idea / bad idea?
          Get a new electrician.
          Ed Conley
          http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
          MM252
          MM211
          Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
          TA185
          Miller 125c Plasma 120v
          O/A set
          SO 2020 Bender
          You can call me Bacchus

          Comment


          • #6
            10g wire 30amp breaker will do just fine.
            Ed Conley
            http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
            MM252
            MM211
            Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
            TA185
            Miller 125c Plasma 120v
            O/A set
            SO 2020 Bender
            You can call me Bacchus

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
              Get a new electrician.
              Can't really go wrong with going with 6Ga wire if your planning on staying in this shop a long time. It's easier to put in now than to remove smaller wire later and replace with 6 in case you upgrade to a larger capacity machine in the future. All you'll need to do then is change receptacles and breaker to increase capacity of the circuit. You never know if you may decide the extra power will be needed later.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bistineau View Post
                Can't really go wrong with going with 6Ga wire if your planning on staying in this shop a long time. It's easier to put in now than to remove smaller wire later and replace with 6 in case you upgrade to a larger capacity machine in the future. All you'll need to do then is change receptacles and breaker to increase capacity of the circuit. You never know if you may decide the extra power will be needed later.
                He said "bigger than a 50 amp CB", he didn't say 6g wire 50amp CB and a 6-50r

                why would he jump over a 50amp CB?? I mean sheite, might as well put in a
                125amp CB, Disconect and be all set for a Synch 300
                Last edited by Broccoli1; 10-13-2011, 07:03 PM.
                Ed Conley
                http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
                MM252
                MM211
                Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
                TA185
                Miller 125c Plasma 120v
                O/A set
                SO 2020 Bender
                You can call me Bacchus

                Comment


                • #9
                  10/50 will feed pretty much any machine that comes with a 50A factory cord, some of the 250 class migs actually call for an 8 but you got to be a screaming demon with a setup not usually found in home shops (more than can be output with 035 and C25). The Diversion definitely should not be connected on circuit breaker larger than 50.
                  6 ga wire isn't going to hurt anything thats for sure but usually if a guy is adding a specialty machine that needs it he is willing to wire a special circuit. I add a home outlet/circuit for each machine. I spend a couple grand on a unit I am not gonna Green Acres a recept, want it switch and play. As the Broc man said for now, 10 wire and a 30A breaker is a tailor made circuit for it, great for up to 210 class mig also and maybe a IM230 class with breaker change to 40 if needed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the feedback, again. And yes Broccol1, I have an electrician. He was going to use 10g wire, a 120'ish amp breaker, and a disconnect box. He just asked if I had a preference on the setup, and I said, "Nope -- I don't know jack about wiring A/C, but I'll ask online."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As I understand it, the circuit breaker is there to prevent the wire between the breaker and the outlet from over-heating and causing a fire. It isn't there to protect your welder, the over-heat function of your welder is for that.

                      The National Electric Code specifies the maximum breaker size that is appropriate for a given size of wire. Normally 10ga wire shouldn't be used with a breaker larger than 30 amps, but the code allows for larger breakers on circuits that are dedicated to welders. I don't have a copy of the code, but I'd be a little surprised if it allows you to go as high as 50 amps on 10ga wire, even for a circuit dedicated to the welder.

                      What's the problem in ignore the code? The electrical inspector won't pass work that doesn't follow code. If you don't get it inspected, and it causes a fire, then you will probably have trouble getting the insurance company to help out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A 120ish amp circuit breaker with 10 gauge wire? You get a short in that line near the plug and the whole thing'll go poof before the breaker even thinks of tripping. For a 120ish amp circuit breaker, you'd want to have atleast 1 gauge wire running to the outlet...which is over kill unless your running some serious equipment. IMO, it sounds like your electrician doesn't know what he's doing...or he has a surplus of 120 amp breakers.

                        Wire capacity should never exceed breaker trip rating. If you need a breaker that can handle a short, high amperage impulse, use a slow blow breaker that's rated at the max wire capacity.

                        I'm surprised that no one's asked the length of the circuit that you're wanting. Not sure how Miller machines handle voltage drop, but if your planning a circuit over 30 feet or so, you may want to step up your wire size to minimize it.

                        In my shop, I use 6/3 SO cable (rated 55 amps) for service lines, protected by 50 amp breakers. If I need a smaller breaker size on location, I'll just add a distribution enclosure with smaller breakers as needed near the end of the run. Never had a problem with voltage drop or overloading the lines.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          TX-D,

                          I think you meant breaker rating should never exceed wire rating. The wire rating will come from the NEC with all applicable derates and conditions depending on the purpose ie welding. You can always put a low rated breaker on higher rated wire provided the wire actually fits into the breaker.

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                          • #14
                            but I'd be a little surprised if it allows you to go as high as 50 amps on 10ga wire, even for a circuit dedicated to the welder.
                            Allows for 50A on a 12 wire,, single circuit in pipe though. Cord or cable needs to ne a 10 or better. They been doing this as long as codes and buzz boxes been around. For this machine a 10 would be good to well over a hundred feet.

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                            • #15
                              In my shop, I use 6/3 SO cable (rated 55 amps) for service lines,
                              Are these free or in a wall, cords are a no-no in a wall. You are right about overloads though, never have that issue unless you hard wired a large machine to it, anything that comes with cord wont overload it.

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