getting inches

[dmk welding]

How much grinding of the root pass would one do if you were fabing pipe on a 100% x ray job and not allowed to burn in a 6010 hot pass? Basically its 2" to 6" pipe and 6010 root and 7018 fill and cap and 90% of them will be roll welds. I've been told that i grind too much after the root and its causing me to be slower and not get enough weld inches in a day.
Does anyone have any tips on how to get more pipe fabed in a day?

[Cornerstone]

You should be just taking out the wagon tracks,..no more. Boss doesn't like seeing the welder take so much time grinding down the root.And you inch sheet will show that too! I like to angle the disc in the groove to widen it a little,not much,but just enough so you can run a 5/32 7018 and bring your puddle up flush. If your spending alot of time taking out every little line you see, dont. Your hot pass will take those out.
Its hard to describe without actually being there to show you what to look for but I hope some of this helps.
PM me for my ph# if you want. Bob.

[jelias]

I agree you shouldnt have to grind a whole lot. unless you have a really ugly root pass. I am not real familiar with stick welding pipe. But i have tigged and dual shielded alot of pipe. But like said take the middle hump off so you tracks are not too deep. You should be able to see them burn out. Just be careful on the tops thats the biggest problem area for lof or traped slag.

Just curious are these field welds or done in a shop? If being done the in the shop why in the **** are you stick welding???

[dmk welding]

Thanks guys...I'm gonna try to grind less and see how the x rays go. This is all strictly field welding btw.

[Rig Hand]

I have trouble on roll-outs with getting the "gator arms" LOL If your not burning full rods that will slow you down as well. Every time that you stop welding you fall further behind. Just something to think about. Good luck

[dmk welding]

Never heard of gator arms in welding context anyways...can you explain?

[Rig Hand]

Alligators have real short arms and when I make a bunch of roll out welds I forget that I have full length arms (My elbows stay pinned to my sides)

What I'm getting at is you can grind a bead pretty quick and there isn't much difference in thickness of a trashy vs. clean bead. So if your inches behind at the end of the day I doubt its from your hot passing. You might be losing time bolting/un-bolting the spool piece in your roll out wheel, or making the fit-up, or the number of starts and stops per weld.

I'm not trying to tell you your business I'm just saying you might look at the whole picture and not just the amount of wagon tracks your leaving to be burnt out.

[dmk welding]

I just know that I'm paranoid about leaving something in and have to trust that my fill will clean it out. Its 100% x ray and when grinding my root pass out clean I rarely have a repair and I just need to trust that less grinding will get me the same results. I agree that fit up time is critical as well and a good helper is priceless in the field. I've been out of fabing for a few years and I guess I was just looking for any tips that the more experienced guys could give,

[Eric Carroll]

The first time I worked a job where you had to get a certain amount of inches a day, the pipe had been hung and the root put in by the fitters. I was just barely making my inches and a older guy was killing everyone, seemed like every time I looked up he was screwing off. I was 19 at the time and had found about 50% older guys helpful and the other 50% wouldnt piss on you if you where on fire. He happend to be the helpful type- he was running his 7018 about 15 amps higher than I was used to and just burning the crap out of his bead. He would wire wheel the root and that was it- hot pass wide, going almost all the way up the bevel, keeping a real tight arc.

[Rig Hand]

How I go about it is if, and only if, x-ray is staying pretty close on your heels, meaning that what you weld today will be shot by sometime tomorrow. I will weld most welds like normal but on one or two I'll push the envelope a little farther. You want to ease into it so you don't get 12 repairs out of 13 welds in one day. If you don't get a repair out of it them start leaving a little more and keep repeating this everyday. I have taught myself a lot with this method, you will be surprised by how much will burn out.

Good luck

[Cornerstone]

I don't know about that righand, typically I'll weld each joint,either a rollout or a position weld, like my job tomorrow depends on it. Don't care to see ribbons flapping about on one that I let my standards go a little bit just to see what I can get away with.

Buts that just the thing of it, you're cranking out the inches all day long and can get a little complacent now and then and boom!, there's a repair ribbon to help you start your day.

[hurricunning]

Talk to the X-Ray hands and ask how your shots are looking and what is allowable. If they are totally clean and there is some room for some defects then ask them if you can loosen up just a touch and see what happens on the next shots, as Rig Hand suggested. Some times there is way more allowance in the code than you may think. Never hurts to get to know those guys. As for Cornerstone's point of view I would agree with that as well, but it does kind of depend on how you are being paid. If there is an inch bonus or other perks for high production then it can indeed pay, and pay very well to cut some corners to tread the line of speed vs quality.

[jelias]

Talk to the X-Ray hands and ask how your shots are looking and what is allowable. If they are totally clean and there is some room for some defects then ask them if you can loosen up just a touch and see what happens on the next shots, as Rig Hand suggested. Some times there is way more allowance in the code than you may think. Never hurts to get to know those guys. As for Cornerstone's point of view I would agree with that as well, but it does kind of depend on how you are being paid. If there is an inch bonus or other perks for high production then it can indeed pay, and pay very well to cut some corners to tread the line of speed vs quality.

I agree talk to the xray guys. I found that more helpfull than anything. Also see if you can look at the reports and the film if you have a drop. Than you can see for yourself what the problems are. Im assuming you have a QC guy to keep track of all this stuff and he should know what code your running under and how much bad weld your allowed. When i stopped welding i was allowed 1/32 in a foot. Not very much. But i also welded alot that was 1/4 inch in a foot so you have more room for error.

Like rig hand said dont change everything all at once. Welding 20 joints that all fail is way worse than welding 10 that pass. But if you make small changes along the way you can look at the outcomes and keep making changes until you have it perfected.

[Sberry]

This relates kind of, I agree one can be too picky and it might not matter, no point in doing 10X better than needed and doing half the finished work and I never really found that quality and speed were tied together, not exclusively anyway.
Some people,,, and this don't make them bad,, its just a fact never were suited all that well to production. My brother works as hard as I do, just takes 2 steps, maybe even 3 to do what I can do in one, doesn't look ahead to tune the setup or circumstances, even simple things like where parked, back the truck up a different direction or another foot, he will get up and off while I back right up and can stand on the tailgate, or I turn it so its a single move, he will let the drops hit the floor then pick them up to put in a box where I will move the box so the drops fall in, some got to stop and back up 2 or 3 times with a forklift to do the same I can wheel around to. If its repetitious I find the easiest way, its a reflex for me, some guys struggle and do it the same way they started in the morning, the same the next day, I can find stuff with little aides maybe where its easier for one man than it was 2.
Some people this is second nature, some struggle. I rarely think about what I am doing, most of the time my brain is spit second ahead of the task at hand, sometimes way farther.
Some seem to find resons to piddle with incontequential stuff too, drives me crazy, are we going to fill this whole hopper,, yes, well then is there a reason to put a scoop in and smooth it all out? I hate that type of work with a passion. Usually want to get away from it as easily as I can. Part of learning the craft is learning the speed after the quality. Really good auto body guys are poster children for this.

[Sberry]

Perfect example,, last hour am going to tape up a grill for a Caddy, my experience says,,, get a appliance white and paint all the semi hidden stuff before assembly, easy trick, big time saver. I walk out there and try to tape this simple thing I was a good finish on. After thinking about this thread a minute I had enough, walk back out, move part into good light, get pair of glasses and zip, 30 seconds, looked better, hid half of it where it cant be seen.
No real skill set fundamentally changed, at some level, say a Nascar driver, who is still an equipment operator,,, the difference between Johnson and Gorden minor, between average driver a lot and between them and 90 yr old Grandma that never liked to drive anyway. Relate this to welders somewhat, not the fame to push the minor differences among the top to the same levels, say finatially, but the skill levels are probably the same.
One time a guy says,,, you are really good at that. I said,,, I ain't no "better" than you are, you just got here, I been doing it for 2 months and am faster/easier.
You can be a better welder but at some level its like nascar,, a human can make a weld only so well or differences would be imperceptible for all practical purpose.
The statistical differences at the top are so minor that the avg person is wasting his time trying to be the "best" Probably a rare day a top hand has a defect,,, its a question for Rig Hand,,, how many joints you do and how many you bust? Like you said,, if you never bust one it would obviously pay to spend the effort getting faster especially if there is incentive,,, than it would the rest of your life making a "better" weld.