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comparing lincoln and esab T-8 flux core wire

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  • comparing lincoln and esab T-8 flux core wire

    I'm looking for input from users that have experience with Esab coreshield 8 and Lincoln NR 203 MP..or Lincoln NR 232 (E71T-8) .068-.072 diameter...... I haven't used the Lincoln , and I find the Esab core 8 to be critical of stickout and voltage ...almost too critical for some very out of position field welding....I am wondering if puddle control and stickout requirements have more latitude with the Lincoln wire...Or perhaps there is another brand that works well ...Any comments from experienced users appreciated...

  • #2
    Originally posted by bayweld View Post
    I'm looking for input from users that have experience with Esab coreshield 8 and Lincoln NR 203 MP..or Lincoln NR 232 (E71T-8) .068-.072 diameter...... I haven't used the Lincoln , and I find the Esab core 8 to be critical of stickout and voltage ...almost too critical for some very out of position field welding....I am wondering if puddle control and stickout requirements have more latitude with the Lincoln wire...Or perhaps there is another brand that works well ...Any comments from experienced users appreciated...
    I've run the ESAB and Lincoln T-8 wires-. Regardless of wire diameter T-8-has a fairly narrow voltage range to run properly: 18-24 volts on the 200 amp+ range. If you run it too hot, exceed max mfg recommended voltage, you are asking for porosity and other defects. Running below the minimum mfg suggested voltage may result in poor wetting of the bead. Larger diameter wires typically require longer stickouts. If you are running 1/16"-5/64" wire, typically stickouts run between 7/8"-1". I have found these rules to hold true regardless of brand.

    The Lincoln wire seems to be more forgiving than most brands. Regardless of the brand wire you need to maintain a constant voltage and wire stick out. It is just the nature of T-8. T-8 is a bit critical of gun angle/travel speed as well. As long as you maintain a uniform slag line behind the weld puddle, then you are probably running with the correct gun angle and travel speed. Yes, I like the Lincoln better, but T-8 in any brand exhibits odd behaviors when run outside the recommended parameters listed above.

    I've run various brands over the years, but always come back to Lincoln wires with one exception: (.035 uncoated ER70s-6). For this wire I always run National Standard. It just works!

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    • #3
      I will disagree with Mr. Hawk ....

      I use T-8 wires on a regular basis; I find ESAB's Coreshield 8 far more user-friendly than Lincoln's NR-232. While all T-8s are voltage-sensitive, Coreshield 8 isn't as finicky as 232. In addition, 1/16" Coreshield 8 will work thru a standard Tweco #4 MIG gun; NR-232 won't, no matter what size liner or tip you use, the wire is just too stiff to go thru a flexible liner, an innershield gun needs to be used.

      NR-233 is another T-8 wire made by Lincoln; it's characteristics are more like Coreshield 8 than NR-232. Very user-friendly, very forgiving.

      All this being said, I currently use far more NR-232 than either Coreshield 8 or NR-233.

      One, my old ESAB supplier is now a Hobart Bros. dealer. No other easy, convenient ESAB source close by. I have several places I can get Lincoln consumables that are both close by and easy.

      Second, NR-232 is most often supplied in 13.5 pound redi-reels (54 pounds per box). Much easier lugging a VS or LN-25 around, with 13.5 pounds of wire in it, than 25 or 30 pounds of wire in it.

      I seem to remember, although haven't compared the different wire specs lately, that 232 can be used at higher amperages and wire speeds than the others, resulting in more pounds per hour.

      NR-232 also has better charpy numbers. The ease of use of both 233 and Coreshield 8 comes with a price ....

      I have no experience with NR-203.
      Last edited by JSFAB; 07-10-2011, 11:14 PM.
      Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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      • #4
        JSFAB,

        I think that is fine you disagree with me. I have always used flux core guns for T-8 so I did not give any thought to the wire diameter tip fit setup. I was not aware of that and glad you brought it up. It is an important point for those who use one gun for several wires.

        My biggest problem with ESAB Coreshield 8 is finding that "sweet spot" so I don't get worm tracks. I am not talking about tracks on film. I am referring to the little lines on top of the finished bead that looks like an earthworm ran across the weld while it was cooling. I can and do find that "sweet spot", but for me it is easier to find it and stay on it with the NR-232.

        I will admit I run a lot of Lincoln stick and wire because it what I am used to having around. I am not knocking ESAB Coreshield 8. Just because I've had some issues with it does not mean it's a bad wire.

        I think wire brands are like anything else in the welding world. Most folks either love a product or they don't. There doesn't seem to be much in between from what I've seen.

        I am curious since you tout ESAB's coreshield as a more "user friendly" wire that you are running "far more NR-232". Is it a job requirement? Have you had any worm track problems with any of the T-8 wires?

        Please understand this is a sincere discussion about these wires and how they run. I am not trying to cause a ******* match here.

        Sincerely,

        HAWK

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        • #5
          No p!ssing match.

          I have never had a worm track problem I couldn't correct by either adjusting machine settings or by maintaining consistently the correct stickout (which affects voltage, even with a CV power source).

          I stated in my first post here the reasons why I use NR-232 even though I consider it a harder wire to run, no reason to restate them. Once you go thru the learning curve, it's really no big deal what brand you use anyway. I also use a lot of NR-211 for sheetmetal, even though I consider the equivalent Hobart wire (HB-21) much easier to use. You just deal with whatever you have at the moment.

          Also note, the problems I mentioned running NR-232 thru a MIG gun have nothing to do with liner/tip/wire diameters, it is due to a more flexible liner and a very stiff wire, creates drag. Innershield guns have a much stiffer liner.
          Last edited by JSFAB; 07-11-2011, 09:51 AM.
          Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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          • #6
            I agree that the Coreshield 8 is sensitive to voltage and stickout with wormtracks and incomplete fusion being problems if you are not running in the sweet spot...The job we are doing has some very difficult weld areas that don't always allow the weldor to maintain the right stickout because there isn't enough room for the torch and the hand...We are using Ln-25 feeders with no problems there..I have changed to the long (10 inch?) tip for some weld areas and that helps...I haven't used NR 203 wire and am about to order some up and give it a try...If I could get just a little more lattitude in the stickout and position areas, it would make this project go better in those tight difficult areas....Thanks for your input JSFAB and Hawk...Very helpful

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            • #7
              bayweld,

              Sometimes I don't think the engineers that design connections and joint types for a project always take into account how one is supposed to gain access for a proper weld. I use to install 1" sched 40 steel gas line inside underground utility vaults. They were used to make the natural gas connections for the store fronts along a downtown "square". More often than not we were using mirrors with the rod ends bent just to gain access. These joints were usually an inch or so from the concrete vault wall.

              As JSFAB mentioned we work with what we have. I've run a lot of wire, but will take 6010 with a 7018 out any day over running flux cored wire. That's just me.

              HAWK

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HAWK View Post
                bayweld,

                Sometimes I don't think the engineers that design connections and joint types for a project always take into account how one is supposed to gain access for a proper weld. I use to install 1" sched 40 steel gas line inside underground utility vaults. They were used to make the natural gas connections for the store fronts along a downtown "square". More often than not we were using mirrors with the rod ends bent just to gain access. These joints were usually an inch or so from the concrete vault wall.

                As JSFAB mentioned we work with what we have. I've run a lot of wire, but will take 6010 with a 7018 out any day over running flux cored wire. That's just me.

                HAWK
                Makes you wonder why they didn't use threaded pipes?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Daniel View Post
                  Makes you wonder why they didn't use threaded pipes?
                  I know some small diameter 3/8" black iron pipe coming in to a residential setting is sometimes threaded and sealed with Rectorseal or other sealant approved for methane use. These lines are only running roughly 3PSI. I don't remember the pressure rating on the stores front vaults prior to the regulator. I think it was around 90PSI. Most were butt welds, then they changed to socket welds about 3/4 through the job.

                  HAWK

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                  • #10
                    Nr-233

                    I see that Lincoln's latest entry into the T-8 wire field is NR-233....According to my supplier, it has been out for a year or so...I have ordered some and will report back on how it welds..

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bayweld View Post
                      ....According to my supplier, it has been out for a year or so..
                      ?????

                      Funny, I was using the stuff at least 5 or 6 years ago ....

                      MY LWS guy told me Lincoln came out with it as a more user-friendly alternative to NR-232, they were responding to the T-8 wires made by several other companies, including ESAB.
                      Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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                      • #12
                        Difficulties welding with t8 wire...

                        delete
                        Last edited by bayweld; 07-27-2011, 12:27 AM. Reason: delete

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                        • #13
                          I've never used Coreshield 8 or 233 but I've used quite a bit of 232 and a ton of 203 N1% (not MP).
                          203N1% is (in my opinion) just as voltage sensitive as 232 but it runs more like a stick rod puddle.
                          All of the T-8 wires are pretty dadgum sensitive.

                          JTM
                          Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bayweld View Post
                            I see that Lincoln's latest entry into the T-8 wire field is NR-233....According to my supplier, it has been out for a year or so...I have ordered some and will report back on how it welds..
                            http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=21780

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